Ring of Brodgar - User contributions [en]

User:Deadguy60

2013-12-01T20:27:06Z

Deadguy60: /* Pages I have interest in */

I'm so bloody freaking bored. 
I like organizing things though.

== Notes to self ==
Possibly of a Player Actions Category or page to include pages or describe actions like [[Lift]] and [[Dig]].

== Pages I have interest in ==
* [[:Category talk:Content]] (Game Mechanics category)
* [[Decay]]
* [[Palisade]]
* [[Stake Claim]]
* [[:Talk:Wild Windsown Weed]]
* [[:Category:Nodes]]
* [[Player Actions]]

User:Deadguy60

2013-12-01T20:11:54Z

Deadguy60: /* Pages I have interest in */

Legacy talk:Dream Catcher

2013-10-19T03:53:12Z

Deadguy60: /* Not replenishing while unloaded */ new section

'''''{{PAGENAME}}''' talk/discussion page. Use [+] to start a new talk section/topic. Last cleared: 05:39, 26 August 2013 (EDT)''

== Not replenishing while unloaded ==

Just making a note that akin to [[Tanning Tub]]s, that Dream Catchers require a person to be on to "load" the dream catcher for the supposed 20 minute duration for it to be harvestable.
Perhaps the dreamer catcher simply needs to be loaded for 20 minutes in total but I don't think that's how it works. Observed this as I live in a cave and I don't play anymore.--[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 23:53, 18 October 2013 (EDT)

Legacy talk:Ancestral Worship

2013-09-24T02:42:52Z

Deadguy60: /* Does it work? */

==Reincarnation?==

What exactly is reincarnation? My friend tried to do it and just made a new character, does that count as reincarnation? We need an article on this.

It allows you to keep some of your LP spent in Non-incrementable skills and some of the Unspent LP, also, it regains some Incrementable skills. The amount of all this depends on your Tradition/change slider. Finally, your reincarnated character starts at your Ancestor's hearth fire. --[[User:MrUnhandy|MrUnhandy]] 16:33, 15 August 2011 (CDT)

==Does it work?==
Well, does it? I have tried right-clicking on the shrine, with the sacrifice in hand, but nothing happens! Appears to be broken....
:Nothing happens here too. - [[User:Duracellpt|Duracellpt]] 14:26, 8 February 2011 (CST)
:I'm assuming that each shrine can be only be used by the hearthling who built it, I could perhaps see comparisons of the shrine to Barter Stands. I don't know if descendants get ownership after the death of the initial owner. Most of what I say is conjecture. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:42, 23 September 2013 (EDT)

Legacy talk:Barter Stand

2013-09-15T05:56:29Z

Deadguy60: /* Open Questions: Talk */

== Open Questions ==

*Is there a way to unlock a barter stand, whiteout the use of the owner character. (hostile takeover of barter stand.)

*Is there a additional/other way to unlock a barter stand, of which the current owning character has died. (other that a general hostile takeover of the barter stand.)

Possible options:
- Clearing the barter stand with criminal acts.
-- With ancestor of owner character. (leaves sent?)(with/without barter stand on p-claim)
-- With unrelated character with theft rights. (barter stand on p-claim) (leaves sent?)
-- With unrelated character. (with/without barter stand on p-claim)

Assumptions:
* Barter stand ownership is not passed on to ancestor.

----
====Open Questions: Talk====
Looks like they become completely unusable when the owner dies but this is assuming criminal acts can't change the ownership. (stupid bear)--[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 01:56, 15 September 2013 (EDT)

Legacy talk:Necromancer's Cloak

2013-09-14T01:02:42Z

Deadguy60: /* Quality Formula */

== Quality Formula ==

Alrighty, I don't think the formula isn't exactly correct but close enough I guess. From avg 30Q yarn and 104 bone ash, expected a 54 necromancer's cloak but got a 57Q cloak. From Q(25+28+29+29) yarn and 104 bone ash, got a 56Q cloak.--[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 21:00, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

Legacy talk:Necromancer's Cloak

2013-09-14T01:00:45Z

Deadguy60: /* Quality Formula */ new section

== Quality Formula ==

Alrighty, I don't think the formula isn't exactly correct but close enough I guess. From avg 30Q yarn and 104 bone ash, expected a 54 necromancer's cloak but got a 57Q cloak. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 21:00, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

Legacy:Four-Leaf Clover

2013-09-14T00:13:01Z

Deadguy60: /* Quality */ +note about shearing wool.

{{Infobox metaobj
|xsize = 1
|ysize = 1
|perexp = 130
|skillreq = [[requires::Foraging]]
|objectsreq = None
|terrain = [[terrain::Grassland]], [[terrain::Heath]], [[terrain::Moor]]
}}

[[File:4-leaf-clover.png|left|40px]]

Once found, it can be fed to a [[Mouflon]] or [[Auroch]] to attain [[Wool]] or [[Milk]] without having to tame the beast. To use, pick up a clover from your inventory and right-click it onto the animal.

To sheer a Mouflon, feed it a clover and then right click on it and select 'sheer'. Each clover gives you 1 wool. You have to equip a sharp tool to be able to sheer ([[Stone Axe]] works fine).

To milk an Auroch, feed it a clover and then pick up a bucket and right-click in on the Auroch. Each clover gives you 2 liters of milk.
==How to Acquire==

Four-Leaf Clovers can be found on [[Grassland]], [[Heath]] and [[Moor]]. Get your [[Perception|(Perception]] x [[Exploration|Exploration)]] over 130 and you will start seeing some.

==Quality==

[[Soil]] quality of the area determines the quality of Four-leaf clovers and is [[Softcap|softcapped]] by [[Survival]].

The quality of the wool or milk obtained is equal to the quality of the clover used to feed the animal though sheared wool is [[Softcap|softcapped]] by the quality of the sharp tool and the shearing character's [[Dexterity]]. 

==Notes==
You can feed an animal multiple clovers before sheering or milking it. This is most useful on Aurochs, since you can feed them 5 clovers and then milk them once to obtain 10 liters of milk, whereas with Mouflon you have to sheer them once for each wool.

Even with (Perception x Exploration) 200, these are quite rare.

[[Category:Wild Plants]]

Legacy talk:Bone Ash

2013-09-13T22:32:38Z

Deadguy60: /* Bone Ash Quality */ new section

== Bone Ash Quality ==

So I'm in the process of making a necromancer's cloak and there isn't information about the resulting quality of bone ash so I thought I should share. 52Q kiln, 45Q charcoal, 159Q bone material resulted in 104Q bone ash. I came up with the possible formula (avg Q bone material*2)(Q kiln)(Q fuel)(1/4). Kiln quality might be +- 1. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 18:32, 13 September 2013 (EDT)

Legacy talk:Hardened Leather

2013-09-12T03:20:10Z

Deadguy60: /* Making note about removal from inventory in bold */

== Talk ==
Current active {{PAGENAME}} H&H forum topic: [http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=435613#p435296 Hardened Leather Quality Formula!] --[[User:Borka|Borka]] ([[User talk:Borka|talk]]) 14:45, 7 August 2013 (EDT)

:Yea, I know. Problem I have with the current data set is that its to limited and none specific to grind out anything that could be called trustworthy in my view. Or to put it in a other way, to many open question marks. (was planning on adding that other formula, but other stuff got in the way.)
:[[File:MvGulik_HL_Plot_1.png|frameless|200px|WIP, Beta, Experimental, etc.]]
:-
:Well ... might as well drop the used formulas for that graph. Note: Still highly experimental in my view.
:A: <code>(((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2)*3 + ((WaterQ + CauldronQ)/2))/4</code>
:B: <code>((LeatherAv + WaxAv*3)/4 + WaterQ)/2</code>
:-
:Aalt: <code>LeatherAv*3/8 + WaxAv*3/8 + WaterQ*1/8 + CauldronQ*1/8</code>
:Balt: <code>LeatherAv*1/8 + WaxAv*3/8 + WaterQ*1/2</code>
:-
:Graph softcapping formula specs:
:_A2_: <code>( (SC((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2)*3) + ((Water + Cauldron)/2) )/4</code>
:_A3_: <code>SC(( (((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2 )*3) + ((Water + Cauldron)/2) )/4)</code>
:+With halved water-q for clay cauldrons.
:-
:Formula B here is the same as one below.
: --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 16:19, 8 August 2013 (EDT)

----

<strike>Best matching base formula at this time:
<math>{{Leather.Avg + Wax.Avg*3}\over 4} + WaterQ \over 2</math>
or (if you like),
<math>Leather.AvgQ*1 + Wax.AvgQ*3 + WaterQ*4\over 8</math></strike>
*For Metal cauldron. For Clay cauldron the water q should be halved.
*Ignoring Cauldron and Fuel quality. (''Deemed "not used" until proven otherwise for this case.'')
*Base result is Softcapped by Sewing*Dex.
*Best matching: There is still something missing in the formula, but it will get you in the right direction.
--[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 07:08, 2 August 2013 (EDT)

As Psy seems to get pulled into this. There is a need to make sure its involved. Two identical case that only differ (plenty) in there Psy level should do the trick (''for this to work at least one of the cases needs to be affected by a softcap.''). (The same trick could of course also be used to make sure other parts are actual involved. As trying to figure out a formula with uncertain parts is generally a really slow "hit and miss" process.) --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 17:11, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

== Data dump ==
<pre>
Id Who_________ LTt WXt CLq CLt WTq FLq Sew Dex Psy GRq
1 MagicManICT_ 93 42 22 C 38 10 30 30 ? 21
2 MagicManICT_ 91 41 22 C 38 10 30 30 ? 20
3 miraclew____ 84 32 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 23
4 miraclew____ 84 54 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 27
5 miraclew____ 84 74 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 31
6 miraclew____ 48 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 19
7 miraclew____ 72 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 22
8 miraclew____ 87 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 25
12 Other(w6)___ 30 2 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 7
13 Other(w6)___ 30 44 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 16
14 Other(w6)___ 33 44 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 16
15 Other(w6)___ 33 60 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 19
16 Sevenless___ 279 222 80 ? 59 41 200 83 75 93
17 SpakyPD_____ 126 59 33 M 60 10 1 17 10 25
18 SpakyPD_____ 126 57 33 M 60 10 10 17 10 29
19 SpakyPD_____ 126 38 33 M 60 10 10 17 10 27
20 SpakyPD_____ 126 38 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 32
21 VikingWarrior 246 20 25 ? 40 41 1 15 ? 21
22 SpakyPD_____ 236 57 33 M 60 10 1 10 10 32
23 SpakyPD_____ 236 57 33 M 60 10 1 17 10 32
24 SpakyPD_____ 93 42 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 31
25 SpakyPD_____ 93 48 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 31
26 SpakyPD_____ 93 38 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 30
27 SpakyPD_____ 93 38 33 M 10 10 40 17 10 24
30 Yasgur______ 3*27 2*11 ? C 20 23 21 21 10 16
31 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*10 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 12
32 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*11 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 13
33 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*12 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 13

LTt: Leather Total.
WXt: Wax Total.
CLq: Cauldron Q.
CLt: Cauldron Type. Metal|Clay.
WTq: Water q.
FLq: Fuel q.
Sew: Sewing.
Dex: Dexterity.
Psy: Psychic.
GRq: Game result.

Tab delimited data. Mainly intended to be dropped directly into local spreadsheet.
</pre>

Data Source(s):
* http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32217

=== wikitable ===
''Generated table. Ergo: data changes should not go here.''
<div style="font:0.9em arial">
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align: center"
!Case||Who||Lt||Wt||Cq||Ct||WTq||FLq||Sew||Dex||Spy||GOq
|-
|1||MagicManICT_||93||42||22||C||38||10||30||30||?||21
|-
|2||MagicManICT_||91||41||22||C||38||10||30||30||?||20
|-
|3||miraclew____||84||32||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||23
|-
|4||miraclew____||84||54||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||27
|-
|5||miraclew____||84||74||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||31
|-
|6||miraclew____||48||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||19
|-
|7||miraclew____||72||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||22
|-
|8||miraclew____||87||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||25
|-
|12||Other(w6)___||30||2||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||7
|-
|13||Other(w6)___||30||44||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||16
|-
|14||Other(w6)___||33||44||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||16
|-
|15||Other(w6)___||33||60||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||19
|-
|16||Sevenless___||279||222||80||?||59||41||200||83||75||93
|-
|17||SpakyPD_____||126||59||33||M||60||10||1||17||10||25
|-
|18||SpakyPD_____||126||57||33||M||60||10||10||17||10||29
|-
|19||SpakyPD_____||126||38||33||M||60||10||10||17||10||27
|-
|20||SpakyPD_____||126||38||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||32
|-
|21||VikingWarrior||246||20||25||?||40||41||1||15||?||21
|-
|22||SpakyPD_____||236||57||33||M||60||10||1||10||10||32
|-
|23||SpakyPD_____||236||57||33||M||60||10||1||17||10||32
|-
|24||SpakyPD_____||93||42||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||31
|-
|25||SpakyPD_____||93||48||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||31
|-
|26||SpakyPD_____||93||38||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||30
|-
|27||SpakyPD_____||93||38||33||M||10||10||40||17||10||24
|-
|31||Agasi_______||27||20||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||12
|-
|32||Agasi_______||27||22||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||13
|-
|33||Agasi_______||27||24||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||13
|}
</div>

== Making note about removal from inventory in bold ==
I wanted this part of the note to be in bold as I thought that part is considerably important. I thought it couldn't hurt to repeat it. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:45, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
:And I was attempting to be specific with the first note as the use of the word "may" isn't good to use maybe. I'm supposing if hardened leather your inventory last, it being the last leather type item entering it, and you craft something requiring leather, I was thinking that it would DEFINITELY be used. Or there are some recipes that can only be crafted with normal leather, I don't know. That is how I understand how items are used up in crafting I believe anyway. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:50, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
::"I was thinking that it would DEFINITELY be used." You are correct about that (in situation given by you) but since you split section to seperate points, which i have no problem with, then those points are not directly related anymore. "Hardened Leather also counts as regular Leather in recipes(...)" is a statement, no ambiguity here; "(...)meaning it may be used as a substitute" is indicating player choice, because you can choose (through manipulation of inventory) if you use normal or hardened leather. Then reading first sentence of second point again there's no ambiguity here: "you will have to remove(...) or it will be reused" is as precise as it gets. As for which parts are in bold and which are not, it could be rearranged. I just don't think that making every other word bold is a right way to go, bolding of the whole point would be more appropriate. --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 06:03, 11 September 2013 (EDT)
:The word "may" makes it seem to me that if you craft something requiring leather and that you have hardened leather in your inventory that it may randomly use it. Perhaps any player who has played long enough would understand this basic mechanic of crafting and thus would know that this isn't true but I was thinking that there are some people who didn't. What I did was talk about a specific instance of the accidental usage of the hardened leather and while this isn't the only instance, I was thinking the info could be specific as to what specific instances the leather would be used. I know it doesn't say it's random, but it doesn't say that it isn't either is sort of what I'm saying. There could be a page that mentions this mechanic but maybe not. Also, I'm horrible at rearranging words. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 23:19, 11 September 2013 (EDT)

Legacy talk:Hardened Leather

2013-09-12T03:19:34Z

Deadguy60: /* Making note about removal from inventory in bold */

== Talk ==
Current active {{PAGENAME}} H&H forum topic: [http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=435613#p435296 Hardened Leather Quality Formula!] --[[User:Borka|Borka]] ([[User talk:Borka|talk]]) 14:45, 7 August 2013 (EDT)

:Yea, I know. Problem I have with the current data set is that its to limited and none specific to grind out anything that could be called trustworthy in my view. Or to put it in a other way, to many open question marks. (was planning on adding that other formula, but other stuff got in the way.)
:[[File:MvGulik_HL_Plot_1.png|frameless|200px|WIP, Beta, Experimental, etc.]]
:-
:Well ... might as well drop the used formulas for that graph. Note: Still highly experimental in my view.
:A: <code>(((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2)*3 + ((WaterQ + CauldronQ)/2))/4</code>
:B: <code>((LeatherAv + WaxAv*3)/4 + WaterQ)/2</code>
:-
:Aalt: <code>LeatherAv*3/8 + WaxAv*3/8 + WaterQ*1/8 + CauldronQ*1/8</code>
:Balt: <code>LeatherAv*1/8 + WaxAv*3/8 + WaterQ*1/2</code>
:-
:Graph softcapping formula specs:
:_A2_: <code>( (SC((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2)*3) + ((Water + Cauldron)/2) )/4</code>
:_A3_: <code>SC(( (((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2 )*3) + ((Water + Cauldron)/2) )/4)</code>
:+With halved water-q for clay cauldrons.
:-
:Formula B here is the same as one below.
: --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 16:19, 8 August 2013 (EDT)

----

<strike>Best matching base formula at this time:
<math>{{Leather.Avg + Wax.Avg*3}\over 4} + WaterQ \over 2</math>
or (if you like),
<math>Leather.AvgQ*1 + Wax.AvgQ*3 + WaterQ*4\over 8</math></strike>
*For Metal cauldron. For Clay cauldron the water q should be halved.
*Ignoring Cauldron and Fuel quality. (''Deemed "not used" until proven otherwise for this case.'')
*Base result is Softcapped by Sewing*Dex.
*Best matching: There is still something missing in the formula, but it will get you in the right direction.
--[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 07:08, 2 August 2013 (EDT)

As Psy seems to get pulled into this. There is a need to make sure its involved. Two identical case that only differ (plenty) in there Psy level should do the trick (''for this to work at least one of the cases needs to be affected by a softcap.''). (The same trick could of course also be used to make sure other parts are actual involved. As trying to figure out a formula with uncertain parts is generally a really slow "hit and miss" process.) --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 17:11, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

== Data dump ==
<pre>
Id Who_________ LTt WXt CLq CLt WTq FLq Sew Dex Psy GRq
1 MagicManICT_ 93 42 22 C 38 10 30 30 ? 21
2 MagicManICT_ 91 41 22 C 38 10 30 30 ? 20
3 miraclew____ 84 32 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 23
4 miraclew____ 84 54 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 27
5 miraclew____ 84 74 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 31
6 miraclew____ 48 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 19
7 miraclew____ 72 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 22
8 miraclew____ 87 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 25
12 Other(w6)___ 30 2 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 7
13 Other(w6)___ 30 44 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 16
14 Other(w6)___ 33 44 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 16
15 Other(w6)___ 33 60 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 19
16 Sevenless___ 279 222 80 ? 59 41 200 83 75 93
17 SpakyPD_____ 126 59 33 M 60 10 1 17 10 25
18 SpakyPD_____ 126 57 33 M 60 10 10 17 10 29
19 SpakyPD_____ 126 38 33 M 60 10 10 17 10 27
20 SpakyPD_____ 126 38 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 32
21 VikingWarrior 246 20 25 ? 40 41 1 15 ? 21
22 SpakyPD_____ 236 57 33 M 60 10 1 10 10 32
23 SpakyPD_____ 236 57 33 M 60 10 1 17 10 32
24 SpakyPD_____ 93 42 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 31
25 SpakyPD_____ 93 48 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 31
26 SpakyPD_____ 93 38 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 30
27 SpakyPD_____ 93 38 33 M 10 10 40 17 10 24
30 Yasgur______ 3*27 2*11 ? C 20 23 21 21 10 16
31 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*10 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 12
32 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*11 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 13
33 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*12 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 13

LTt: Leather Total.
WXt: Wax Total.
CLq: Cauldron Q.
CLt: Cauldron Type. Metal|Clay.
WTq: Water q.
FLq: Fuel q.
Sew: Sewing.
Dex: Dexterity.
Psy: Psychic.
GRq: Game result.

Tab delimited data. Mainly intended to be dropped directly into local spreadsheet.
</pre>

Data Source(s):
* http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32217

=== wikitable ===
''Generated table. Ergo: data changes should not go here.''
<div style="font:0.9em arial">
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align: center"
!Case||Who||Lt||Wt||Cq||Ct||WTq||FLq||Sew||Dex||Spy||GOq
|-
|1||MagicManICT_||93||42||22||C||38||10||30||30||?||21
|-
|2||MagicManICT_||91||41||22||C||38||10||30||30||?||20
|-
|3||miraclew____||84||32||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||23
|-
|4||miraclew____||84||54||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||27
|-
|5||miraclew____||84||74||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||31
|-
|6||miraclew____||48||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||19
|-
|7||miraclew____||72||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||22
|-
|8||miraclew____||87||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||25
|-
|12||Other(w6)___||30||2||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||7
|-
|13||Other(w6)___||30||44||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||16
|-
|14||Other(w6)___||33||44||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||16
|-
|15||Other(w6)___||33||60||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||19
|-
|16||Sevenless___||279||222||80||?||59||41||200||83||75||93
|-
|17||SpakyPD_____||126||59||33||M||60||10||1||17||10||25
|-
|18||SpakyPD_____||126||57||33||M||60||10||10||17||10||29
|-
|19||SpakyPD_____||126||38||33||M||60||10||10||17||10||27
|-
|20||SpakyPD_____||126||38||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||32
|-
|21||VikingWarrior||246||20||25||?||40||41||1||15||?||21
|-
|22||SpakyPD_____||236||57||33||M||60||10||1||10||10||32
|-
|23||SpakyPD_____||236||57||33||M||60||10||1||17||10||32
|-
|24||SpakyPD_____||93||42||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||31
|-
|25||SpakyPD_____||93||48||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||31
|-
|26||SpakyPD_____||93||38||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||30
|-
|27||SpakyPD_____||93||38||33||M||10||10||40||17||10||24
|-
|31||Agasi_______||27||20||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||12
|-
|32||Agasi_______||27||22||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||13
|-
|33||Agasi_______||27||24||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||13
|}
</div>

== Making note about removal from inventory in bold ==
I wanted this part of the note to be in bold as I thought that part is considerably important. I thought it couldn't hurt to repeat it. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:45, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
:And I was attempting to be specific with the first note as the use of the word "may" isn't good to use maybe. I'm supposing if hardened leather your inventory last, it being the last leather type item entering it, and you craft something requiring leather, I was thinking that it would DEFINITELY be used. Or there are some recipes that can only be crafted with normal leather, I don't know. That is how I understand how items are used up in crafting I believe anyway. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:50, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
::"I was thinking that it would DEFINITELY be used." You are correct about that (in situation given by you) but since you split section to seperate points, which i have no problem with, then those points are not directly related anymore. "Hardened Leather also counts as regular Leather in recipes(...)" is a statement, no ambiguity here; "(...)meaning it may be used as a substitute" is indicating player choice, because you can choose (through manipulation of inventory) if you use normal or hardened leather. Then reading first sentence of second point again there's no ambiguity here: "you will have to remove(...) or it will be reused" is as precise as it gets. As for which parts are in bold and which are not, it could be rearranged. I just don't think that making every other word bold is a right way to go, bolding of the whole point would be more appropriate. --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 06:03, 11 September 2013 (EDT)
:The word "may" makes it seem to me that if you craft something requiring leather and that you have hardened leather in your inventory that it may randomly use it. Perhaps any player who has played long enough would understand this basic mechanic of crafting and thus would know that this isn't true but I was thinking that there are some people who didn't. What I did was talk about a specific instance of the accidental usage of the hardened leather and while this isn't the only instance, I was thinking the info could be specific as to what specific instances the leather would be used. I know it doesn't say it's random, but it doesn't say that it isn't either is sort of what I'm saying. There could be a page that mentions this mechanic but maybe not. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 23:19, 11 September 2013 (EDT)

Legacy talk:Hardened Leather

2013-09-11T02:51:35Z

Deadguy60: /* Making note about removal from inventory in bold */

== Making note about removal from inventory in bold ==
I wanted this part of the note to be in bold as I thought that part is considerably important. I thought it couldn't hurt to repeat it. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:45, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
:And I was attempting to be specific with the first note as the use of the word "may" isn't good to use maybe. I'm supposing if hardened leather your inventory last, it being the last leather type item entering it, and you craft something requiring leather, I was thinking that it would DEFINITELY be used. Or there are some recipes that can only be crafted with normal leather, I don't know. That is how I understand how items are used up in crafting I believe anyway. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:50, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

== Talk ==
Current active {{PAGENAME}} H&H forum topic: [http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=435613#p435296 Hardened Leather Quality Formula!] --[[User:Borka|Borka]] ([[User talk:Borka|talk]]) 14:45, 7 August 2013 (EDT)

:Yea, I know. Problem I have with the current data set is that its to limited and none specific to grind out anything that could be called trustworthy in my view. Or to put it in a other way, to many open question marks. (was planning on adding that other formula, but other stuff got in the way.)
:[[File:MvGulik_HL_Plot_1.png|frameless|200px|WIP, Beta, Experimental, etc.]]
:-
:Well ... might as well drop the used formulas for that graph. Note: Still highly experimental in my view.
:A: <code>(((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2)*3 + ((WaterQ + CauldronQ)/2))/4</code>
:B: <code>((LeatherAv + WaxAv*3)/4 + WaterQ)/2</code>
:-
:Aalt: <code>LeatherAv*3/8 + WaxAv*3/8 + WaterQ*1/8 + CauldronQ*1/8</code>
:Balt: <code>LeatherAv*1/8 + WaxAv*3/8 + WaterQ*1/2</code>
:-
:Graph softcapping formula specs:
:_A2_: <code>( (SC((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2)*3) + ((Water + Cauldron)/2) )/4</code>
:_A3_: <code>SC(( (((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2 )*3) + ((Water + Cauldron)/2) )/4)</code>
:+With halved water-q for clay cauldrons.
:-
:Formula B here is the same as one below.
: --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 16:19, 8 August 2013 (EDT)

----

<strike>Best matching base formula at this time:
<math>{{Leather.Avg + Wax.Avg*3}\over 4} + WaterQ \over 2</math>
or (if you like),
<math>Leather.AvgQ*1 + Wax.AvgQ*3 + WaterQ*4\over 8</math></strike>
*For Metal cauldron. For Clay cauldron the water q should be halved.
*Ignoring Cauldron and Fuel quality. (''Deemed "not used" until proven otherwise for this case.'')
*Base result is Softcapped by Sewing*Dex.
*Best matching: There is still something missing in the formula, but it will get you in the right direction.
--[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 07:08, 2 August 2013 (EDT)

As Psy seems to get pulled into this. There is a need to make sure its involved. Two identical case that only differ (plenty) in there Psy level should do the trick (''for this to work at least one of the cases needs to be affected by a softcap.''). (The same trick could of course also be used to make sure other parts are actual involved. As trying to figure out a formula with uncertain parts is generally a really slow "hit and miss" process.) --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 17:11, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

== Data dump ==
<pre>
Id Who_________ LTt WXt CLq CLt WTq FLq Sew Dex Psy GRq
1 MagicManICT_ 93 42 22 C 38 10 30 30 ? 21
2 MagicManICT_ 91 41 22 C 38 10 30 30 ? 20
3 miraclew____ 84 32 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 23
4 miraclew____ 84 54 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 27
5 miraclew____ 84 74 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 31
6 miraclew____ 48 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 19
7 miraclew____ 72 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 22
8 miraclew____ 87 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 25
12 Other(w6)___ 30 2 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 7
13 Other(w6)___ 30 44 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 16
14 Other(w6)___ 33 44 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 16
15 Other(w6)___ 33 60 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 19
16 Sevenless___ 279 222 80 ? 59 41 200 83 75 93
17 SpakyPD_____ 126 59 33 M 60 10 1 17 10 25
18 SpakyPD_____ 126 57 33 M 60 10 10 17 10 29
19 SpakyPD_____ 126 38 33 M 60 10 10 17 10 27
20 SpakyPD_____ 126 38 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 32
21 VikingWarrior 246 20 25 ? 40 41 1 15 ? 21
22 SpakyPD_____ 236 57 33 M 60 10 1 10 10 32
23 SpakyPD_____ 236 57 33 M 60 10 1 17 10 32
24 SpakyPD_____ 93 42 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 31
25 SpakyPD_____ 93 48 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 31
26 SpakyPD_____ 93 38 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 30
27 SpakyPD_____ 93 38 33 M 10 10 40 17 10 24
30 Yasgur______ 3*27 2*11 ? C 20 23 21 21 10 16
31 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*10 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 12
32 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*11 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 13
33 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*12 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 13

LTt: Leather Total.
WXt: Wax Total.
CLq: Cauldron Q.
CLt: Cauldron Type. Metal|Clay.
WTq: Water q.
FLq: Fuel q.
Sew: Sewing.
Dex: Dexterity.
Psy: Psychic.
GRq: Game result.

Tab delimited data. Mainly intended to be dropped directly into local spreadsheet.
</pre>

Data Source(s):
* http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32217

=== wikitable ===
''Generated table. Ergo: data changes should not go here.''
<div style="font:0.9em arial">
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align: center"
!Case||Who||Lt||Wt||Cq||Ct||WTq||FLq||Sew||Dex||Spy||GOq
|-
|1||MagicManICT_||93||42||22||C||38||10||30||30||?||21
|-
|2||MagicManICT_||91||41||22||C||38||10||30||30||?||20
|-
|3||miraclew____||84||32||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||23
|-
|4||miraclew____||84||54||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||27
|-
|5||miraclew____||84||74||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||31
|-
|6||miraclew____||48||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||19
|-
|7||miraclew____||72||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||22
|-
|8||miraclew____||87||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||25
|-
|12||Other(w6)___||30||2||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||7
|-
|13||Other(w6)___||30||44||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||16
|-
|14||Other(w6)___||33||44||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||16
|-
|15||Other(w6)___||33||60||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||19
|-
|16||Sevenless___||279||222||80||?||59||41||200||83||75||93
|-
|17||SpakyPD_____||126||59||33||M||60||10||1||17||10||25
|-
|18||SpakyPD_____||126||57||33||M||60||10||10||17||10||29
|-
|19||SpakyPD_____||126||38||33||M||60||10||10||17||10||27
|-
|20||SpakyPD_____||126||38||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||32
|-
|21||VikingWarrior||246||20||25||?||40||41||1||15||?||21
|-
|22||SpakyPD_____||236||57||33||M||60||10||1||10||10||32
|-
|23||SpakyPD_____||236||57||33||M||60||10||1||17||10||32
|-
|24||SpakyPD_____||93||42||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||31
|-
|25||SpakyPD_____||93||48||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||31
|-
|26||SpakyPD_____||93||38||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||30
|-
|27||SpakyPD_____||93||38||33||M||10||10||40||17||10||24
|-
|31||Agasi_______||27||20||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||12
|-
|32||Agasi_______||27||22||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||13
|-
|33||Agasi_______||27||24||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||13
|}
</div>

Legacy talk:Hardened Leather

2013-09-11T02:50:16Z

Deadguy60: /* Making note about removal from inventory in bold */

== Making note about removal from inventory in bold ==
I wanted this part of the note to be in bold as I thought that part is considerably important. I thought it couldn't hurt to repeat it. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:45, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
:And I was attempting to be specific with the first note as the use of the word "may" isn't good to use maybe. I'm supposing if hardened leather your inventory last, it being the last leather type item entering it, and you craft something requiring leather, I was thinking that it would DEFINITELY be used. Or there are some recipes that can only be crafted with normal leather, I don't know. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:50, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

== Talk ==
Current active {{PAGENAME}} H&H forum topic: [http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=435613#p435296 Hardened Leather Quality Formula!] --[[User:Borka|Borka]] ([[User talk:Borka|talk]]) 14:45, 7 August 2013 (EDT)

:Yea, I know. Problem I have with the current data set is that its to limited and none specific to grind out anything that could be called trustworthy in my view. Or to put it in a other way, to many open question marks. (was planning on adding that other formula, but other stuff got in the way.)
:[[File:MvGulik_HL_Plot_1.png|frameless|200px|WIP, Beta, Experimental, etc.]]
:-
:Well ... might as well drop the used formulas for that graph. Note: Still highly experimental in my view.
:A: <code>(((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2)*3 + ((WaterQ + CauldronQ)/2))/4</code>
:B: <code>((LeatherAv + WaxAv*3)/4 + WaterQ)/2</code>
:-
:Aalt: <code>LeatherAv*3/8 + WaxAv*3/8 + WaterQ*1/8 + CauldronQ*1/8</code>
:Balt: <code>LeatherAv*1/8 + WaxAv*3/8 + WaterQ*1/2</code>
:-
:Graph softcapping formula specs:
:_A2_: <code>( (SC((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2)*3) + ((Water + Cauldron)/2) )/4</code>
:_A3_: <code>SC(( (((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2 )*3) + ((Water + Cauldron)/2) )/4)</code>
:+With halved water-q for clay cauldrons.
:-
:Formula B here is the same as one below.
: --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 16:19, 8 August 2013 (EDT)

----

<strike>Best matching base formula at this time:
<math>{{Leather.Avg + Wax.Avg*3}\over 4} + WaterQ \over 2</math>
or (if you like),
<math>Leather.AvgQ*1 + Wax.AvgQ*3 + WaterQ*4\over 8</math></strike>
*For Metal cauldron. For Clay cauldron the water q should be halved.
*Ignoring Cauldron and Fuel quality. (''Deemed "not used" until proven otherwise for this case.'')
*Base result is Softcapped by Sewing*Dex.
*Best matching: There is still something missing in the formula, but it will get you in the right direction.
--[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 07:08, 2 August 2013 (EDT)

As Psy seems to get pulled into this. There is a need to make sure its involved. Two identical case that only differ (plenty) in there Psy level should do the trick (''for this to work at least one of the cases needs to be affected by a softcap.''). (The same trick could of course also be used to make sure other parts are actual involved. As trying to figure out a formula with uncertain parts is generally a really slow "hit and miss" process.) --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 17:11, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

== Data dump ==
<pre>
Id Who_________ LTt WXt CLq CLt WTq FLq Sew Dex Psy GRq
1 MagicManICT_ 93 42 22 C 38 10 30 30 ? 21
2 MagicManICT_ 91 41 22 C 38 10 30 30 ? 20
3 miraclew____ 84 32 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 23
4 miraclew____ 84 54 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 27
5 miraclew____ 84 74 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 31
6 miraclew____ 48 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 19
7 miraclew____ 72 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 22
8 miraclew____ 87 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 25
12 Other(w6)___ 30 2 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 7
13 Other(w6)___ 30 44 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 16
14 Other(w6)___ 33 44 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 16
15 Other(w6)___ 33 60 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 19
16 Sevenless___ 279 222 80 ? 59 41 200 83 75 93
17 SpakyPD_____ 126 59 33 M 60 10 1 17 10 25
18 SpakyPD_____ 126 57 33 M 60 10 10 17 10 29
19 SpakyPD_____ 126 38 33 M 60 10 10 17 10 27
20 SpakyPD_____ 126 38 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 32
21 VikingWarrior 246 20 25 ? 40 41 1 15 ? 21
22 SpakyPD_____ 236 57 33 M 60 10 1 10 10 32
23 SpakyPD_____ 236 57 33 M 60 10 1 17 10 32
24 SpakyPD_____ 93 42 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 31
25 SpakyPD_____ 93 48 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 31
26 SpakyPD_____ 93 38 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 30
27 SpakyPD_____ 93 38 33 M 10 10 40 17 10 24
30 Yasgur______ 3*27 2*11 ? C 20 23 21 21 10 16
31 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*10 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 12
32 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*11 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 13
33 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*12 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 13

LTt: Leather Total.
WXt: Wax Total.
CLq: Cauldron Q.
CLt: Cauldron Type. Metal|Clay.
WTq: Water q.
FLq: Fuel q.
Sew: Sewing.
Dex: Dexterity.
Psy: Psychic.
GRq: Game result.

Tab delimited data. Mainly intended to be dropped directly into local spreadsheet.
</pre>

Data Source(s):
* http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32217

=== wikitable ===
''Generated table. Ergo: data changes should not go here.''
<div style="font:0.9em arial">
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align: center"
!Case||Who||Lt||Wt||Cq||Ct||WTq||FLq||Sew||Dex||Spy||GOq
|-
|1||MagicManICT_||93||42||22||C||38||10||30||30||?||21
|-
|2||MagicManICT_||91||41||22||C||38||10||30||30||?||20
|-
|3||miraclew____||84||32||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||23
|-
|4||miraclew____||84||54||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||27
|-
|5||miraclew____||84||74||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||31
|-
|6||miraclew____||48||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||19
|-
|7||miraclew____||72||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||22
|-
|8||miraclew____||87||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||25
|-
|12||Other(w6)___||30||2||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||7
|-
|13||Other(w6)___||30||44||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||16
|-
|14||Other(w6)___||33||44||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||16
|-
|15||Other(w6)___||33||60||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||19
|-
|16||Sevenless___||279||222||80||?||59||41||200||83||75||93
|-
|17||SpakyPD_____||126||59||33||M||60||10||1||17||10||25
|-
|18||SpakyPD_____||126||57||33||M||60||10||10||17||10||29
|-
|19||SpakyPD_____||126||38||33||M||60||10||10||17||10||27
|-
|20||SpakyPD_____||126||38||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||32
|-
|21||VikingWarrior||246||20||25||?||40||41||1||15||?||21
|-
|22||SpakyPD_____||236||57||33||M||60||10||1||10||10||32
|-
|23||SpakyPD_____||236||57||33||M||60||10||1||17||10||32
|-
|24||SpakyPD_____||93||42||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||31
|-
|25||SpakyPD_____||93||48||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||31
|-
|26||SpakyPD_____||93||38||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||30
|-
|27||SpakyPD_____||93||38||33||M||10||10||40||17||10||24
|-
|31||Agasi_______||27||20||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||12
|-
|32||Agasi_______||27||22||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||13
|-
|33||Agasi_______||27||24||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||13
|}
</div>

Legacy talk:Hardened Leather

2013-09-11T02:45:46Z

Deadguy60:

== Making note about removal from inventory in bold ==
I wanted this part of the note to be in bold as I thought that part is considerably important. I thought it couldn't hurt to repeat it. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:45, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

== Talk ==
Current active {{PAGENAME}} H&H forum topic: [http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=435613#p435296 Hardened Leather Quality Formula!] --[[User:Borka|Borka]] ([[User talk:Borka|talk]]) 14:45, 7 August 2013 (EDT)

:Yea, I know. Problem I have with the current data set is that its to limited and none specific to grind out anything that could be called trustworthy in my view. Or to put it in a other way, to many open question marks. (was planning on adding that other formula, but other stuff got in the way.)
:[[File:MvGulik_HL_Plot_1.png|frameless|200px|WIP, Beta, Experimental, etc.]]
:-
:Well ... might as well drop the used formulas for that graph. Note: Still highly experimental in my view.
:A: <code>(((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2)*3 + ((WaterQ + CauldronQ)/2))/4</code>
:B: <code>((LeatherAv + WaxAv*3)/4 + WaterQ)/2</code>
:-
:Aalt: <code>LeatherAv*3/8 + WaxAv*3/8 + WaterQ*1/8 + CauldronQ*1/8</code>
:Balt: <code>LeatherAv*1/8 + WaxAv*3/8 + WaterQ*1/2</code>
:-
:Graph softcapping formula specs:
:_A2_: <code>( (SC((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2)*3) + ((Water + Cauldron)/2) )/4</code>
:_A3_: <code>SC(( (((LeatherAv + WaxAv)/2 )*3) + ((Water + Cauldron)/2) )/4)</code>
:+With halved water-q for clay cauldrons.
:-
:Formula B here is the same as one below.
: --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 16:19, 8 August 2013 (EDT)

----

<strike>Best matching base formula at this time:
<math>{{Leather.Avg + Wax.Avg*3}\over 4} + WaterQ \over 2</math>
or (if you like),
<math>Leather.AvgQ*1 + Wax.AvgQ*3 + WaterQ*4\over 8</math></strike>
*For Metal cauldron. For Clay cauldron the water q should be halved.
*Ignoring Cauldron and Fuel quality. (''Deemed "not used" until proven otherwise for this case.'')
*Base result is Softcapped by Sewing*Dex.
*Best matching: There is still something missing in the formula, but it will get you in the right direction.
--[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 07:08, 2 August 2013 (EDT)

As Psy seems to get pulled into this. There is a need to make sure its involved. Two identical case that only differ (plenty) in there Psy level should do the trick (''for this to work at least one of the cases needs to be affected by a softcap.''). (The same trick could of course also be used to make sure other parts are actual involved. As trying to figure out a formula with uncertain parts is generally a really slow "hit and miss" process.) --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 17:11, 6 August 2013 (EDT)

== Data dump ==
<pre>
Id Who_________ LTt WXt CLq CLt WTq FLq Sew Dex Psy GRq
1 MagicManICT_ 93 42 22 C 38 10 30 30 ? 21
2 MagicManICT_ 91 41 22 C 38 10 30 30 ? 20
3 miraclew____ 84 32 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 23
4 miraclew____ 84 54 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 27
5 miraclew____ 84 74 23 ? 33 10 80 43 29 31
6 miraclew____ 48 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 19
7 miraclew____ 72 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 22
8 miraclew____ 87 38 23 ? 33 ? 999 999 999 25
12 Other(w6)___ 30 2 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 7
13 Other(w6)___ 30 44 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 16
14 Other(w6)___ 33 44 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 16
15 Other(w6)___ 33 60 10 C 29 ? 999 999 ? 19
16 Sevenless___ 279 222 80 ? 59 41 200 83 75 93
17 SpakyPD_____ 126 59 33 M 60 10 1 17 10 25
18 SpakyPD_____ 126 57 33 M 60 10 10 17 10 29
19 SpakyPD_____ 126 38 33 M 60 10 10 17 10 27
20 SpakyPD_____ 126 38 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 32
21 VikingWarrior 246 20 25 ? 40 41 1 15 ? 21
22 SpakyPD_____ 236 57 33 M 60 10 1 10 10 32
23 SpakyPD_____ 236 57 33 M 60 10 1 17 10 32
24 SpakyPD_____ 93 42 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 31
25 SpakyPD_____ 93 48 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 31
26 SpakyPD_____ 93 38 33 M 60 10 40 17 10 30
27 SpakyPD_____ 93 38 33 M 10 10 40 17 10 24
30 Yasgur______ 3*27 2*11 ? C 20 23 21 21 10 16
31 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*10 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 12
32 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*11 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 13
33 Agasi_______ 3*9 2*12 26 M 22 10 90 28 28 13

LTt: Leather Total.
WXt: Wax Total.
CLq: Cauldron Q.
CLt: Cauldron Type. Metal|Clay.
WTq: Water q.
FLq: Fuel q.
Sew: Sewing.
Dex: Dexterity.
Psy: Psychic.
GRq: Game result.

Tab delimited data. Mainly intended to be dropped directly into local spreadsheet.
</pre>

Data Source(s):
* http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32217

=== wikitable ===
''Generated table. Ergo: data changes should not go here.''
<div style="font:0.9em arial">
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="text-align: center"
!Case||Who||Lt||Wt||Cq||Ct||WTq||FLq||Sew||Dex||Spy||GOq
|-
|1||MagicManICT_||93||42||22||C||38||10||30||30||?||21
|-
|2||MagicManICT_||91||41||22||C||38||10||30||30||?||20
|-
|3||miraclew____||84||32||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||23
|-
|4||miraclew____||84||54||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||27
|-
|5||miraclew____||84||74||23||?||33||10||80||43||29||31
|-
|6||miraclew____||48||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||19
|-
|7||miraclew____||72||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||22
|-
|8||miraclew____||87||38||23||?||33||?||999||999||999||25
|-
|12||Other(w6)___||30||2||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||7
|-
|13||Other(w6)___||30||44||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||16
|-
|14||Other(w6)___||33||44||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||16
|-
|15||Other(w6)___||33||60||10||C||29||?||999||999||?||19
|-
|16||Sevenless___||279||222||80||?||59||41||200||83||75||93
|-
|17||SpakyPD_____||126||59||33||M||60||10||1||17||10||25
|-
|18||SpakyPD_____||126||57||33||M||60||10||10||17||10||29
|-
|19||SpakyPD_____||126||38||33||M||60||10||10||17||10||27
|-
|20||SpakyPD_____||126||38||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||32
|-
|21||VikingWarrior||246||20||25||?||40||41||1||15||?||21
|-
|22||SpakyPD_____||236||57||33||M||60||10||1||10||10||32
|-
|23||SpakyPD_____||236||57||33||M||60||10||1||17||10||32
|-
|24||SpakyPD_____||93||42||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||31
|-
|25||SpakyPD_____||93||48||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||31
|-
|26||SpakyPD_____||93||38||33||M||60||10||40||17||10||30
|-
|27||SpakyPD_____||93||38||33||M||10||10||40||17||10||24
|-
|31||Agasi_______||27||20||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||12
|-
|32||Agasi_______||27||22||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||13
|-
|33||Agasi_______||27||24||26||M||22||10||90||28||28||13
|}
</div>

Legacy talk:Leather

2013-09-10T08:03:13Z

Deadguy60: Created page with "== Quality == As it sounds as if the information about the quality formula is not definite, it has successfully calculated the quality of a piece of leather that I have made. ..."

== Quality ==
As it sounds as if the information about the quality formula is not definite, it has successfully calculated the quality of a piece of leather that I have made. From Q35 boards, Q40 water, Q19 bark, and Q68 hide, resulted in Q49 leather. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 04:03, 10 September 2013 (EDT)

Legacy:Hardened Leather

2013-09-10T06:10:23Z

Deadguy60: /* Notes */ tried to be a bit more clear and thought the information would be more clear if they were separate.

{{infobox metaobj
|xsize = 1
|ysize = 1
|skillreq = [[requires::Leather Working]]
|objectsreq = [[objectsreq::requires::Leather]] x3, [[objectsreq::requires::Beeswax]] x2 Or [[objectsreq::requires::Candleberry wax]] x2
|producedby = [[requires::Cauldron]] or [[requires::Clay Cauldron]] (with 2.5 liters)
}}

Hardened Leather is leather treated with wax to strengthen it. It requires three pieces of [[Leather]] and two units of [[Beeswax]] or [[Candleberry wax]], and may be used to create objects like the [[Traveller's Sack]], [[Cutthroat Cuirass]] and [[Mine hole]].

==How to Acquire==
You need a cauldron or clay cauldron with at least 2.5 liters of hot water to harden leather.

*Gather the 5 ingredients into your inventory: 3 [[Leather]] and 2 [[Beeswax]] or 2 [[Candleberry wax]]
*Right click a boiling [[Cauldron]] or [[Clay Cauldron]] to move into position and ready it for use
*Select the recipe: {{Key|C}}raft > {{Key|L}}eather Working > Har{{Key|d}}ened Leather
*Click the "Craft" button

==Notes==
*Hardened Leather also counts as regular [[Leather]] in recipes, meaning it may be used as a substitute if the Hardened Leather entered your inventory last when you are crafting something requiring Leather.
*Since Hardened Leather uses Leather in its own recipe, you will have to remove newly crafted Hardened Leather from your inventory before attempting to make more, or it will re-use them in the next process. So '''Do not use the "Craft All" button''' if attempting to make multiple pieces of Hardened Leather. '''Carefully make them one piece at a time and remove the Hardened Leather from your inventory before making a next one.'''

Legacy:Dead Chicken

2013-09-08T17:15:19Z

Deadguy60: observed with a character with base stats.

{{Infobox metaobj
|xsize = 1
|ysize = 2
|skillreq = [[requires::Hunting]]
|objectsreq = [[requires::Chicken]]
|producedby = Nothing
}}

Right-click and select "Butcher" to convert a dead chicken into [[Raw Chicken Meat]], [[Bone Material]], and three [[Chicken Feather]]s which will be the [[Quality]] of the dead chicken and not [[Softcap]]ped by skills and stats.

==How to Acquire==
To get a dead chicken all you have to do is right click on a [[Chicken]] in your inventory and select "Wring Neck"; or you can simply kill a live chicken, which is running around on [[Grassland]], [[Moor]] or [[Heath]].

Legacy talk:Nodes

2013-09-08T08:20:51Z

Deadguy60: /* Hidden Soil Nodes */

* Everything is open for discussion.
* Nothing (so far) is guaranteed to be correct.

== 'Nodes' (old) ==
Was about to create a nodes-catagory page, but ... could not make up my mind about the name to be used for the category page. 
'''Nodes''' is a nice short name. 
'''Resource Nodes''' is more explanatory, but a bit long (when added as additional category name(default name) on the target resource pages). This name can of course be used as redirect to the 'Nodes' category-page if needed.) 
Ergo ... take your pick I would say. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 20:44, 31 January 2012 (EST)

:I think '''Node''' probably better describes what they are (resource node is only applicable to clay and ore since they are found exclusively in them). I have an issue with making it a category though. the thing with making this page a category is that it isn't necessarily a category. Is water a node? No. Is soil a node? No, etc. What we could make a reference at the bottom of each of the targeted pages saying a little note along the lines of "See also: Resource Nodes". Perhaps have the page explain the term, and then has subsections referring to resource nodes, and the different nodes for mining? I'm not entirely sure, give your input before anything gets set in stone. --[[User:ApocalypsePlease|ApocalypsePlease]] 23:02, 31 January 2012 (EST)

Category: Was thinking here to linkup all items that have quality nodes in them. But if deemed useful at a later stage a category page can always be added at that time..
Just start a general node page. With the general node information and specific water/clay/mine/etc node parts in separate header sections.. Splitting up can be done later when its filled in a bit..
I'm not sure how much I can add on the resource-node(s) topic itself (I'm by no means a HnH guru.). But will dig around the forum to update myself a bit. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 02:44, 1 February 2012 (EST)

:Start off the page as you would like, and we can work from there. If we want to make this "unofficial", we can use my talk page as a psuedo-privatized page to make it not easily find able. Since of how much information needs to be within this page, it's better to not have it as an official wiki page just yet before it's all been tweaked.--[[User:ApocalypsePlease|ApocalypsePlease]] 21:48, 1 February 2012 (EST)

lol. Think where running in circles here. Anyway, no need for a unofficial page (+Moving pages across different namespace's seems difficult, if possible at all.). Will try to dig up what I had in mind in relation to that Nodes page. (althoooough whose project idea was it ... ;) )--[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 16:38, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

:We really are running in circles. I'll try to pick up some initiative to get it made. If you would prefer to start it by all means go ahead and do so and I'll add/refine everything that seems necessary --[[User:ApocalypsePlease|ApocalypsePlease]] 16:44, 19 March 2012 (EDT)
::Get started on this already. My love of organization is getting me antsy. Also fish nodes have been currently a thing for a while. And I suddenly came up with a odd thought that wild windsown weeds were affected by nodes some how as well, perhaps a "negative" type of node which makes all weeds in this node NOT be a specific type of seed. Maybe not though. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 21:59, 19 August 2013 (EDT)

== Hidden Soil Nodes ==
It seems to me that most tiles, even if they don't or can't return soil, have a soil quality to them. I'll go ahead and assume all "plant" type forageables are affected by the quality of the soil of the tile that they are found on and that includes Mountains, Swamps, and the Underground. Non-plant type forageables are understandably not affected by soil quality such as certain kinds of clay and feldspar. A foragable that may be affected by soil quality is Peculiar Flotsams. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 00:13, 8 September 2013 (EDT)

:Quite resonable assumption taking into account that all other surface nodes spread through and can have centre on tiles where they're unharvestable (flotsam thou can be based on water or fish nodes, not neccesarily soil). --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 03:17, 8 September 2013 (EDT)

:Quote: ''"It seems to me that most tiles, even if they don't or can't return soil, have a soil quality to them."'' I think your looking at it the wrong way. Node layers cover the whole world-map. Depending on the node-type map, some are just about fully filled with overlapping nodes(ground/soil), others are sparsely populated, like gold. ''(Node maps of course also have a minimum cap, like 10 for soil, and nothing/zero for gold.)'' Or: "hidden nodes" are only a classification that makes sens from a user/player perspective (nodes not discovered yet by players), but not from a technical game aspects (as all nodes are in essence initially hidden(to players). Technically aspect is: nodes(high points) are directly accessible or not). --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 03:29, 8 September 2013 (EDT)
::just used the word hidden as I didn't bother looking for a better word. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 04:20, 8 September 2013 (EDT)

Legacy:Roasted Plaice

2013-09-08T04:38:39Z

Deadguy60:

{{stub}}
{{Infobox metaobj
|objectsreq = [[requires::Filet of Plaice]]
|producedby = [[requires::Fire]] (lit)
|hunger = 30
|str = 0
|agi = 0
|int = 1
|con = 0
|per = 3
|cha = 0
|dex = 0
|psy = 0
|hurt = 0
}}

Legacy:Roasted Sturgeon

2013-09-08T04:38:23Z

Deadguy60:

{{stub}}
{{Infobox metaobj
|objectsreq = [[requires::Filet of Sturgeon]]
|producedby = [[requires::Fire]] (lit)
|hunger = 30
|str = 3
|agi = 0
|int = 0
|con = 0
|per = 0
|cha = 0
|dex = 0
|psy = 1
|hurt = 0
}}

Legacy:Roasted Troll Meat

2013-09-08T04:38:04Z

Deadguy60: added "Produced by: Fire"

{{infobox metaobj
| xsize = 1
| ysize = 1
| skillreq = Unknown
| objectsreq = [[requires::Raw Troll Meat]]
| producedby = [[requires::Fire]] (lit)
| hunger = 40
| str = 15
| agi = 0
| int = 0
| con = 0
| per = 0
| cha = 0
| dex = 0
| psy = 10
| hurt = 0
}}

Roasted Troll Meat is a product of roasting [[Raw Troll Meat]]. 
{{NeedInfo}}:Hunger units given

== How to Acquire ==
{{Key|C}}raft > Coo{{Key|k}}ing > {{Key|R}}oasted Meat

Have [[Raw Troll Meat]] in your Inventory, right click a currently lit [[Fire]] (or light it); this will walk you up to the Fire. Locate the skill, and click '''Craft''' or '''Craft All''' in your Craft Window.

Legacy:Roasted Salmon

2013-09-08T04:37:44Z

Deadguy60: added "Produced by: Fire"

{{stub}}
{{Infobox metaobj
|objectsreq = [[requires::Filet of Salmon]]
|producedby = [[requires::Fire]] (lit)
|hunger = 30
|str = 0
|agi = 0
|int = 2
|con = 0
|per = 0
|cha = 3
|dex = 0
|psy = 0
|hurt = 0
}}

Legacy:Roasted Plaice

2013-09-08T04:37:17Z

Deadguy60: added "Produced by: Fire"

{{Infobox metaobj
|objectsreq = [[requires::Filet of Plaice]]
|producedby = [[requires::Fire]] (lit)
|hunger = 30
|str = 0
|agi = 0
|int = 1
|con = 0
|per = 3
|cha = 0
|dex = 0
|psy = 0
|hurt = 0
}}

Legacy:Roasted Roach

2013-09-08T04:37:10Z

Deadguy60: added "Produced by: Fire"

{{Infobox metaobj
|objectsreq = [[requires::Filet of Roach]]
|producedby = [[requires::Fire]] (lit)
|hunger = 30
|str = 0
|agi = 0
|int = 2
|con = 0
|per = 0
|cha = 0
|dex = 2
|psy = 0
|hurt = 0
}}
Can be obtained from Filet of Roach. Increases hunger by 30.

Legacy:Roasted Pike

2013-09-08T04:36:47Z

Deadguy60: added "Produced by: Fire"

{{stub}}
{{Infobox metaobj
|objectsreq = [[requires::Filet of Pike]]
|producedby = [[requires::Fire]] (lit)
|hunger = 30
|str = 2
|agi = 0
|int = 2
|con = 1
|per = 0
|cha = 0
|dex = 0
|psy = 0
|hurt = 0
}}

Legacy:Roasted Perch

2013-09-08T04:36:27Z

Deadguy60: added "Produced by: Fire"

{{Infobox metaobj
|objectsreq = [[requires::Filet of Perch]]
|producedby = [[requires::Fire]] (lit)
|hunger = 30
|str = 0
|agi = 0
|int = 4
|con = 0
|per = 0
|cha = 0
|dex = 0
|psy = 0
|hurt = 0
}}

Roasted Perch is the name of the food obtained from [[Filet of Perch]] when it is roasted over a fire. Like all roasted meat, a player's [[Survival]] score will affect the final quality of Roasted Perch rather than the [[Cooking]] score.

==How to Acquire==
*Gather the ingredient into your inventory: 1 [[Filet of Perch]]
*Right click a lit fire to move into position and ready it for use
*Select the recipe: [C]raft > Coo[k]ing > [R]oasted Meat
*Click the Craft button

Legacy:Roasted Eel

2013-09-08T04:36:02Z

Deadguy60: added "Produced by: Fire"

{{stub}}
{{Infobox metaobj
|objectsreq = [[requires::Filet of Eel]]
|producedby = [[requires::Fire]] (lit)
|hunger = 30
|str = 0
|agi = 4
|int = 0
|con = 0
|per = 0
|cha = 0
|dex = 0
|psy = 0
|hurt = 0
}}

Legacy:Roasted Brill

2013-09-08T04:35:01Z

Deadguy60: added "Produced by: Fire"

{{Infobox metaobj
|objectsreq = [[requires::Filet of Brill]]
|producedby = [[requires::Fire]] (lit)
|xsize = 1
|ysize = 1
|type = Inventory
|hunger = 30
|str = 2
|agi = 0
|int = 0
|con = 0
|per = 0
|cha = 0
|dex = 2
|psy = 0
|hurt = 0
}}
Obtained by cooking Filet of Brill over a fire via Craft>Cooking>Roasted Meat.
One of the few fish that doesn't give INT FEPs, making it good for new players with unbalanced stats

Legacy:Roasted Bream

2013-09-08T04:34:50Z

Deadguy60: added "Produced by: Fire"

{{stub}}
{{Infobox metaobj
|objectsreq = [[requires::Filet of Bream]]
|producedby = [[requires::Fire]] (lit)
|hunger = 30
|str = 0
|agi = 0
|int = 3
|con = 0
|per = 0
|cha = 2
|dex = 0
|psy = 0
|hurt = 0
}}

Legacy:Roasted Sturgeon

2013-09-08T04:34:13Z

Deadguy60: added "Produced by: Fire"

{{Infobox metaobj
|objectsreq = [[requires::Filet of Sturgeon]]
|producedby = [[requires::Fire]] (lit)
|hunger = 30
|str = 3
|agi = 0
|int = 0
|con = 0
|per = 0
|cha = 0
|dex = 0
|psy = 1
|hurt = 0
}}

Legacy:Wild Windsown Weed

2013-09-08T04:30:10Z

Deadguy60: Is that vague enough? the information about the halving of quality on a table really had to go.

{{infobox metaobj
|xsize = 1
|ysize = 1
|perexp = 80
|skillreq = [[requires::Foraging]]
|objectsreq = None
|producedby = Hand
|terrain = [[terrain::Forest]], [[terrain::Grassland]], [[terrain::Heath]], [[terrain::Moor]], [[terrain::Swamp]], [[terrain::Beach]] (?), [[terrain::Thicket]] (?)
}}

[[Category:Wild Plants]]
[[File:WWW.png|left|75px]]

The wild [[:Category:Crops|crop]] patches known from the second world in Haven & Hearth have been replaced with '''Wild Windsown Weeds''' (WWWs), a [[:Category:Wild Plants|wild plant]] that you can forage for. This wild plant, when dried, converts into a seed of some kind that you can then plant with the [[Farming]] skill. The kind of seed you obtain from Wild Windsown Weeds is random and not dependent on the type of terrain on which they are found. However, if you find several Wild Windsown Weeds in the same "area" they will tend to produce the same type of seed.

==How to Acquire==
Wild Windsown Weeds begin to appear when you have a [[Perception]] * [[Exploration]] score of 80. They can be found all terrain types except for mudflats and mountains.
''({{verify}}: Terrain types in infobox with trailing (?) need to be verified.)''

==Quality==
[[Soil]] quality of the area determines the quality of Wild Windsown Weeds and is [[Softcap|softcapped]] by [[Survival]].

==How to Use==
The Wild Windsown Weed is used to get seeds, in order to get these seeds it must be dried on either an [[Herbalist Table]], or on a [[Drying Frame]]. The drying time on a drying frame is 2 in game days, or 16 hours of real time, and the drying time on an herbalist table is 8 in game hours or about 2.6 hours of real time.

==Notes==
Exact details about the quality of the resulting seed from a dried Wild Windsown Weed is currently not known but it is believed that the quality of the resulting seed is never above the dried Wild Windsown Weed and that there is a degree of randomness involved.

Quality

2013-09-08T04:17:06Z

Deadguy60:

Almost all items, as well as many game-world objects, have a quality factor '''Q''', which may range from 1 to ∞, with a standard default quality for most objects of 10 -- for example, all natural-growing trees are Q10. In general, higher Q items are simply better: high Q weapons do more damage, for example.

The in-game effects vary from item to item, with some items like buckets and linen clothing not having any effect at all. Where quality matters, it usually takes the form of the quality multiplier '''QM''':

: <math>QM = \sqrt{\frac{Q}{10}}</math>

This multiplier is 1x for Q10, 2x for Q40, 3x for Q90, 4x for Q160, and so on. It is a nonlinear increase, which just means that it becomes harder and harder to get a good multiplier for higher and higher multipliers. Since Q10 has a QM of 1x, in many places on this wiki you will just see stats given for Q10 objects. You should assume this unless the wiki page you're reading says otherwise.

To make higher-Q objects, you should use higher-Q materials with higher-Q tools. Some materials, like in [[farming]], have a natural quality "spread" of ± 6 points, which you can use to grow higher-Q foods. Others, like soil, fish, water, clay, and herbs, have a Q determined by a natural (but invisible) hot-spot on the map. In other words, you might find that one day you forage a Q31 [[Spindly Taproot]]. This means that this square has Q31 soil. If you dig around in a 5 square radius, you might be able to find higher and higher Q soil -- perhaps even Q40 at some square. You could then mark it off for later, as you can always come back to that hot-spot to collect high-Q herbs, soil, and earthworms. You might then use that soil to plant high-Q trees, which will help you make high-Q tools.

It is very common for crafting qualities to be [[Softcap|softcapped]] by a crafting skill or a vital stat. For example, if you have a Q40 bone and a Q10 branch, you can in principle make a Q35 bone saw -- but if your survival skill is lower, perhaps at 15, you will only make a Q25 bone saw, because (35 + 15)/2 = 25.

It is also very common for fractional qualities to be rounded down to the nearest integer.

=Discussion=

'''There is still much to be understood about the quality system. Use this section to discuss findings, theories, etc.'''

New crafting skills are [[sewing]], [[smithing]], [[Glossary#Carpentry | carpentry]], [[cooking]], [[Glossary#Farming | farming]], and [[survival]].

Quality of crafted goods can be dependent on any (including combinations) of the following: Quality of ingredients, crafter's skill level, and crafter's stats. Which of these three are used seems to vary from item type to item type.

==Armor and Clothing==

Backpacks and cosmetic clothing are unaffected by quality.

Armor gets increased HP and AC as its quality increases. The AC gets multiplied by QM, while the HP gets multiplied by Q/10.

*[[Leather Armor]]: 150 HP, AC 25/25 (2R)
*[[Bear Cape]]: 50 HP, AC 0/15(1L and 8L)
*[[Chainmail Shirt]]: 475 HP, AC 75/75 (2R)
*[[Bronze Plate]]: 500 HP, AC 100/100 (2R)
*[[Plate Armor]]: 500 HP, AC 150/75 (2R)
*[[Leather Boots]]: 100 HP, AC 0/20 (8R)
*[[Leather Pants]]: 150 HP, AC 25/25 (2R)
*[[Ranger's Boots]]: 150 HP, AC 15/15 (8R)
*[[Druid's Helm]]: 225 HP, AC 30/10 (1L)
*[[Hirdsman's Helmet]]: 200 HP, AC 45/20 (1L) Only usable by [[Hird|Hirdsmen]] within a village.
*[[Boar Tusk Helmet]]: 120 HP, AC 5/30 (1L)
*[[Soldier's Helmet]]: 425 HP, AC 50/25 (1L)

==Weapons==

See the [[Weapons]] page, and Category:Weapons. Weapon damage gets multiplied by QM.

* [[Stone Axe]]: 100 base dmg
* [[Militia Sword]]: 250 base dmg
* [[Bronze Sword]]: 325 base dmg
* [[Soldier's Sword]]: 400 base dmg
* [[Battleaxe of the Twelfth Bay]]: 500 base damage
* [[Sling]]: 60 base dmg
* [[Wooden Bow]]: 110 base dmg
* [[Ranger's Bow]]: 275 base dmg

==Food==

The [[FEP]]s given by a piece of food get multiplied by QM. So, for example, a Q10 beetroot gives 0.5 PER and 0.2 CHA, but a Q90 beetroot will give 1.5 PER and 0.6 CHA.

Quality does not affect the amount of hunger that the food restores -- just the amount that it buffs up your vital stats.

There is use for low quality foods, as they can be eaten for [[FEP#FEP_Requirement_Reduction|FEP Reduction]] as the FEPs given relative to higher quality foods can be negligible at higher levels.

==Miscellaneous==

The quality of structures is not affected by who builds them or what they are repaired with.

Seeds quality is affected by your farming skill and reduced by it if its lower then the crop's Q.

Water recovers more stamina per hunger as its quality increases. Details unknown. 
> Q 10 water goes at a rate of 5% per 5% hunger 
> Q 65 water goes at a rate of 15-16% per 5% hunger

Animals give higher quality items as their level increases, affected by your [[sharp tool]] and survival skill [http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1885#p21850].

The quality of crafted items is equal to the average quality of the ingredients rounded down. However, it is also capped by the appropriate skill level of the crafter. Different items have different weights in averaging the quality of a final product.For example, a Q50 bone combined with a Q10 branch would make a Q20 arrow, because a bone weighs 2 and a branch weighs 6. (The formula would be (50*2 + 10*6) / 8) - These are not the true weight values of these items, these are example values. [http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1885#p22110]

=== Cooking and Ceramics ===

Cooking and pottery are both very similar. When you bake, you produce a dough based on the average Q of your ingredients, softcapped by the square root of your [[Cooking]]*[[Perception]]. You then place this into an oven, which requires fuel. The quality afterwards is given by a weighted average:

: <math>Q_{item} = \frac{2 Q_{dough} + Q_{oven} + Q_{fuel}}{4}</math>

Pottery uses the same formula as well: the only difference is that you craft a ceramic based on the average Q of your clays used, softcapped by [[dexterity]]. Then the ceramic is the "dough", the kiln is the "oven", and the fuel is still the fuel.

=== Jewelry ===
* Quality for all accessories except [[monocle]]s and [[spectacles]] is equal to the quality of the [[Goldbeater's Skin]], softcapped by <math>\sqrt{Smithing*Psyche}</math>.
* [[Monocle]] and [[glass]] quality is the average of the materials, softcapped by smithing

=== Equipment ===
* [[Bear Tooth Talisman]] quality = tooth quality, softcapped by [[psyche]]
* [[Bone saw]] quality = (5*qBone + qBranch)/6, softcapped by [[survival]]
* [[Traveller's Sack]] quality = qHardened Leather, softcapped by [[sewing]].

=== Raw materials ===
* [[Board]] quality = sqrt(qLog * qTool), [[softcap]]ped by [[carpentry]]
* Woodblock quality is simply log quality. Your Carpentry and [[stone axe]] don't matter.
* [[Leather]] quality = (3*qHide + qBark + qWater + qTub)/6.

=== Metal Products ===

* Quality for all full metal products are calculated with the formula: quality = (qMetal*4 + qAnvil*1.5 +qHammer*1.5)/7
* [[Smithy's Hammer]] quality = (qMetalQ*3 + qAnvil)/4

=== Food ===
* [[Cheese]] quality will be equal to that of [[curd]] quality, softcapped by [[Cheese Tray|cheese tray]] quality
* [[Butter]] quality = (4*qMilk + qChurn)/5, [[softcap]]ped by [[cooking]]
* [[Butter-steamed Cavebulb]]s are affected by [[butter]], [[water]] and [[cavebulb]] quality (not by fuel though)
* [[Beer]] quality = (qWort + qBarrel )/2
* [[Fish]] quality = Fishing spot quality, [[softcap]]ped by (qPole*qLine*qHook*qLureOrBait)^(1/4)
* [[Grape juice]] quality = (3*qGrape + qWinepress)/4, only last pressed grape matters
* [[Wine]] quality = (qGrapejuice + qBarrel) / 2
* [[Vinegar]] quality = (qWine + qBarrel) / 2

==Skill values==

'''Sewing limits:''' ''quality affected by dexterity''
* quality of leather items
* quality of cloth products

'''Smithing limits:''' ''quality affected by strength and sometimes psyche''
* quality of metal working recipes (sqrt(STR*Smithing))

* quality of jewelry recipies (sqrt(PSY*Smithing))

'''Carpentry limits:'''
* quality of crafted wooden items e.g. boards (blocks are only affected by tree quality), cheese trays, Primitive Dolls...

'''Cooking limits: '''''quality affected by perception''
* quality of cooking recipes
* quality of unbaked goods - If PER is lower than the average quality of the ingredients, quality = [PER+ 2*(ingredient 1) + ... + 2*(ingredient n)]/( 1+2*n), otherwise it's just said average.

'''Farming limits:'''
* seeds when harvested (MaxQuality = farming +5)
* quality of flour ground at a quern
* quality of trees

'''Survival limits:'''
* arrows, bone saw
* quality of [[foraging|foraged]] items
* skinning and butchering; quality = (Animal Quality + Tool Quality + 2*Survival)/4.
* bone quality only affected by survival.
The effect of survival is capped at 300.

'''Marksmanship limits:'''
* quality of bows

==From loftar==

For buildable objects, the quality is almost always calculated as such:
* The qualities of items in the individual item types are averaged arithmetically.
* The resulting average qualities of the various types are also averaged arithmetically -- often with some weights on items that should be "obviously" more important (like the iron in iron plows) -- to create the quality of the built object.

For craftable items, most are calculated like this:
* As with buildable object, the qualities of the individual item types are averaged, and then weighted together based on importance.
* If one is using any tools, like a churn, anvil, or smithy's hammer, the qualities of those are averaged with the above resultant quality -- often with a weigth of 1/4 for the tool.
* If any character attributes are involved, those attributes themselves are averaged geometrically, and if the resultant "skill quality" is lower than the "input/tool quality", the resultant quality is the arithmetic average of the skill quality and the input/tool quality.

If you don't know what a geometric average is, it is the multiplication product of the individual values, raised to the power of the inverse of the number of values. In other words, averaging values <math>V_1, V_2, \ldots, V_n</math> geometrically means calculating <math>(V_1 \cdot V_2 \cdot \ldots \cdot V_n)^{\frac{1}{n}}</math>.

As for ovens, kilns, smelter and finery forges, the quality of the resultant quality is the arithmetic average of the input item quality and the average of the oven quality and fuel quality, where the fuel quality is the arithmetic average of the fuel items put into the oven. In other words, if the item quality is <math>q_i</math>, the oven's quality is <math>q_o</math> and the fuel's quality is <math>q_f</math>, the quality of the resulting item will be <math>\frac{2q_i + q_o + q_f}{4}</math>.

As for the skills involved in crafting, it should mostly be obvious, but there are, of course, a few things to clarify:
* Sewing related recipes (including leatherworking ones) use the Sewing and Dexterity values.
* Smithing related recipes often combine both Smithing and Strength.

====Crafting formula====

Calculate items used:
:<math>q_{item} = \frac{\sum_{i = 1}^{n} q_iw_i}{\sum w}</math>

If there's a tool involved:
:<math>q_{item} \leftarrow \frac{3q_{item} + q_{tool}}{4}</math>

If there are skill values <math>s_1</math> through <math>s_n</math> involved:
:<math>q_{item} \leftarrow \left \lbrace
\begin{array}{ll}
\frac{q_{skill} + q_{item}}{2}, & \text{if } q_{skill} < q_{item} \\
q_{item}, & \text{otherwise}
\end{array}
\right \rbrace, \text{where }
q_{skill} = {\left( \prod_{i = 1}^{n} s_i\right )}^{\frac{1}{n}}
</math>

*Calculations will be made in order of top to down.
[[Category:Content]]

Legacy talk:Nodes

2013-09-08T04:13:33Z

Deadguy60: /*Hidden Soil Nodes*/

Legacy:Nodes

2013-09-08T03:57:06Z

Deadguy60: /* General, Top layer */ Added info about fish nodes.

{{stub}}
[[Category:Nodes]]

Initial general Nodes page setup. 
(data collection and correction.)
__TOC__

*All quality nodes (as far as I know) are circular in shape.

== General, Top layer ==
=== Soil ===
*Quality Node. (Land/Ground is filled with these. They're everywhere and overlap.)
*Dynamic Node. (quality changes on use, and is restored to its initial base quality over time if not used.)
*Always returns some soil. Defaults to a minimal quality of 10.
*Affects land based forageable items. (including curiosities as far as I know)

=== Water ===
(Rivers and Lakes)
*Quality Node.
*Dynamic Node. (quality changes on use, and is restored to its initial base quality over time if not used.)
*Always returns some water. Defaults to a minimal quality of 10.
*Affects fish and mussel items.(it definitly sets a starting QL point but i'm not sure if depletition of one affects the Q of the other, will test it later on)

=== Clay ===
(Acre Clay on Mudflats)(ball clay, grey clay and acre clay are all on the exact same nodes, depletition of one affects the Q of the others)
*Quality Node.
*Dynamic Node. (quality changes on use, and is restored to its initial base quality over time if not used.)
*Will not give any clay if the local quality falls below 10q.
(ignoring the general single clay item than can be found from time to time on any mudflat.)

=== Sand ===
(Beaches)
*Quality Node.
*Dynamic Node. (quality changes on use, and is restored to its initial base quality over time if not used.)
*Always returns some Sand. Defaults to a minimal quality of 10.

=== Stone ===
(Mountain)
*Quality Node.
*Dynamic Node. (quality changes on use, and is restored to its initial base quality over time if not used.)
*Always returns some stone. Defaults to a minimal quality of 10.(?)

=== Fish ===
(Rivers and Lakes)
*Quality Node.
*Dynamic Node. (quality changes on use, and is restored to its initial base quality over time if not used.)
*Will not give any fish if local quality falls below 10q.

== Mining, Caves ==
=== Ore Deposits ===
*Resource Node.
*Static Node. (no change on use.)

=== Ore Quality ===
*Quality Node.
*Static Node. (base quality remains the same when used)

=== Rock/Stone Hardness ===
*Static Node. (no change on use.)

== Table ==
(later, maybe)
[[Category:Content]]

Legacy talk:Roasted Bear Meat

2013-09-08T03:34:00Z

Deadguy60: Created page with "How long until this item is listed in the Fire page in the "Required by" section maybe? --~~~~"

How long until this item is listed in the [[Fire]] page in the "Required by" section maybe? --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 23:34, 7 September 2013 (EDT)

Legacy:Barkboat

2013-09-08T03:31:00Z

Deadguy60:

{{Infobox metaobj
|xsize = 1
|ysize = 1
|skillreq = [[requires::Boat Building]]
|objectsreq = [[requires::String]], [[requires::Branch]], [[requires::Birchbark]], [[requires::Bark]]
|producedby = Hand
|lpgain = 500
|studytime = 3.00
|mentalweight = 5
| ccrafted = yes
}}

[[Category:Crafted]]

The '''Bark Boat''' is a [[Curiosity]] which can be used in the [[Study Interface]] to earn [[Learning Points]].

==How to Acquire==

{{Key|C}}raft > c{{Key|U}}riosities > {{Key|B|}}arkboat

==Notes==
*This is a relatively simple curiosity, but can become difficult to make without access to [[Birch Tree]]s.

*The quality of a bark boat is [[softcap]]ped by [[Carpentry]].

*[[Birchbark]] also doubles as normal [[Tree bark]]. To prevent a Birchbark item from being used as a normal tree bark when crafting a bark boat. Drop the normal tree bark(s) in your inventory any time '''after''' the Birchbark(s), that way they are found before the Birchbark.

Legacy:Roasted Bear Meat

2013-09-08T03:21:34Z

Deadguy60: added "Produced by: Fire"

{{stub}}

{{infobox metaobj
| xsize = 1
| ysize = 1
| skillreq = Unknown
| objectsreq = [[requires::Bear Meat]]
|producedby = [[requires::Fire]] (lit)
| hunger = 40
| str = 3.5
| agi = 0
| int = 0
| con = 0
| per = 0
| cha = 0
| dex = 0
| psy = 0
| hurt = 0
}}

==How to Acquire==
Light a [[Fire]], then use the Roasted Meat craft to cook the [[Bear Meat]]. It gives you 3.5 [[STR#Strength|STR]] and fills up 40 hunger units.

Legacy:Block of Wood

2013-09-07T06:32:16Z

Deadguy60: /* How to Acquire */ added a well known tip I believe.

{{infobox metaobj
|xsize = 2
|ysize = 1
|skillreq = [[requires::Lumberjacking]]
|objectsreq = [[requires::Log]] or [[requires::Stump]]
|producedby = [[requires::Stone Axe]]
}}

The quality of the blocks is based on the quality of the [[tree]]. The quality of your [[stone axe]] has no effect. Blocks obtained from stumps are always q10.

==How to Acquire==
Blocks of wood are produced by chopping either a [[log]] or removing a [[stump]] with a [[stone axe]].

Removing a stump provides 4 blocks and chopping a log provides 12 blocks. You can also right-click blocks and select the "Split" option in order to split the blocks into 5 [[branch]]es each.

==Tips==
*As blocks of wood have a vast variety of uses such as fuel and building material, a player could store them in [[Palisade]] corner-post building-signs to store 100 blocks or [[Mine Support]] building-signs to store 20 blocks as mine supports require less items to discover for new alts. Both require paved land.

Legacy:Vinegar

2013-09-07T05:42:18Z

Deadguy60:

{{infobox metaobj
|xsize = 1
|ysize = 1
|skillreq = [[requires::Winemaking]]
|objectsreq = [[requires::Wine]]; [[requires::Wine Bottle]]
|producedby = [[requires::Wine Barrel]]
}}

[[Category:Liquids]]

You need vinegar to make [[rennet]].

==How to Acquire==
To produce vinegar, you need a [[winepress]] and a lot of [[grapes]] (50 grapes for 10l). Put the [[Grape Juice|grape juice]] into a [[Wine Barrel|wine barrel]] and wait for one ingame week till the juice turns into [[wine]]. Wait one week again and you have vinegar.

Vinegar can be stored in [[Wine Bottle]]s.

==Notes==
*Once a barrel is emptied of vinegar, the barrel cannot be filled back with vinegar other than aging wine in it.
*A barrel that contains vinegar can be filled with more vinegar.

Legacy talk:Mining

2013-09-07T04:57:36Z

Deadguy60: /* Mining Ability */

I think that [[Mining#How_to_mine]] could use some organization as that mass of text looks too long. Perhaps it could be separated into 2 or 3 sub-sections. Just a suggestion, I'm too much of a lazy ass to fix it myself--[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 19:56, 23 May 2012 (EDT)

== Cave-ins ==
Looking for information about what's new with mining in World 7, information about cave-ins are in the pages:[[Mine Hole]] and [[Mine Support]]. I was thinking of creating a subsection in this page about cave-ins. I'd also like to mention that there isn't a page for the object that people call [[Cave-in Boulder]]. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 20:26, 30 August 2013 (EDT)

== Mining Ability ==
Was curious how much MA I need for level 3 as I am just working on my mine hole to level 3 however there was not a lot of info around.
Did some tests with tools I have on level 2, so the information was available, please add whatever you test.
<pre>

Mining Ability

Level 1
Str Tool Speed Mine? Message
--- ---- ----- ----- -------
42 20 (S) N/A No That rock is very much too hard for you to mine.
42 20 (S) N/A No That rock is much too hard for you to mine.
52 20 (S) N/A No That rock is very much too hard for you to mine.
52 20 (S) N/A No That rock is much too hard for you to mine.
44 27 (S) ? Yes N/A
100 23 (P) ~3s Yes N/A

Level 2
Str Tool Speed Mine? Message
--- ---- ----- ----- -------
157 14 (P) N/A No You do not even manage to scratch that rock.
157 36 (S) N/A No That rock is much to hard for you to mine.
113 36 (S) N/A No That rock is very much to hard for you to mine.
157 112 (P) <1s Yes N/A
113 112 (P) ~1s Yes N/A
65 23 (P) N/A No That rock is slightly too hard for you to mine.
100 23 (P) ~9s Yes N/A(slow mining speed)

Level 3
Str Tool Speed Mine? Message
--- ---- ----- ----- -------
177 112 (P) <1s Yes N/A
177 37 (S) >10s Yes N/A
127 112 (P) ~1s Yes N/A
133 37 (S) N/A No That rock is just slightly to hard for you to mine.
123 37 (S) N/A No That rock is slightly to hard for you to mine.
167 10 (S) N/A No That rock is very much to hard for you to mine.
167 13 (S) N/A No That rock is very much to hard for you to mine.
167 19 (S) N/A No That rock is much to hard for you to mine.
123 19 (S) N/A No That rock is very much to hard for you to mine.

Level 4
Str Tool Speed Mine? Message
--- ---- ----- ----- -------

Level 5
Str Tool Speed Mine? Message
--- ---- ----- ----- -------

</pre>

==Mining Strategy (archived)==

You can mine zig-zagged lines north south east and west without getting cave-ins and putting mine supports down everywhere. This method is best for mining tunnels to do prospecting. Start by putting a mine support down with this you can do a zigzag in any direction listed above. To start mine 3 tiles in the direction that will be zig-zagged then turn right or left mine 2 tiles then another 2 tiles in the direction your going then back whichever direction you first chose and repeat. Doing this will not create any straight line longer than 3 tiles. DO NOT use this technique for going diagnal it always causes cave-ins when leaving the mine support radius.

The zig-zag pattern can be easily walkable by removing the center tile in the zig-zag. To do so is tricky and often ends in a cave-in. You must stand behind the center tile near the wall
E.G.

<pre style="color:red;font-size:150%;font-weight:bold;width:4em;text-align:center">
WWWPW
WPPXW
WPWWW
WPPPW
</pre>
Stand on the X tile and mine the center W tile. You will be mining diagonally.
It might be best just to build and space out mine supports to safely create the straight path.

--The above no longer works, since mining got updated for w7 --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 05:34, 27 August 2013 (EDT)

Legacy talk:Seer's Bowl

2013-09-06T22:18:42Z

Deadguy60: Created page with "== Quality == Base quality apparently is only dependent on the average of the nuggets it seems. My hammer and anvil is the same quality as the nuggets to create the bowls so I..."

== Quality ==
Base quality apparently is only dependent on the average of the nuggets it seems. My hammer and anvil is the same quality as the nuggets to create the bowls so I can't say if they also have an effect on the quality of the bowl --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 18:18, 6 September 2013 (EDT)

File:Legacy-Deadguy60 Tests WWW on DryingFrame.png

2013-09-06T02:28:50Z

Deadguy60: Deadguy60 uploaded a new version of "File:Deadguy60 Tests WWW on DryingFrame.png": Reverted to version as of 02:28, 6 September 2013

a small test. a long wait.

File:Legacy-Deadguy60 Tests WWW on DryingFrame.png

2013-09-06T02:28:36Z

Deadguy60: Deadguy60 uploaded a new version of "File:Deadguy60 Tests WWW on DryingFrame.png": Reverted to version as of 02:27, 5 September 2013

a small test. a long wait.

File:Legacy-Deadguy60 Tests WWW on DryingFrame.png

2013-09-06T02:28:17Z

Deadguy60: Deadguy60 uploaded a new version of "File:Deadguy60 Tests WWW on DryingFrame.png": I'm done with testing after this.

a small test. a long wait.

Legacy talk:Wild Windsown Weed

2013-09-05T02:28:45Z

Deadguy60: /* Stuff 2 */

==Stuff==
* WWW found with perc*expl=80, [http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/knob_hush/Picture8.png Image], By [[User:JustOneAsbesto|JustOneAsbesto]](6 Mar 2011)

* It seems that it spawns more rarely in coniferous forest than to grassland and heath. By [[User:Trepach|Trepach]](22 Nov 2011) {{verify}}

* Drying on a frame has no effect on the quality. {{verify}}
* Drying on an herbalist table halves the quality. {{verify}}

''(Note: I think that (true) verification involves a bit more than just showing one single case (or case-set) that fits the current target.)'' --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 15:01, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

Additional open investigations:
* Is there a random component in WWW to seed quality?
* Does the table quality affect the resulting seed's quality? (if yes, how)
* Does the forager or person who placed the weed on the table affect the resulting seed's quality?

==Data Collection Table==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
|+ -- Wild Windsown Weed --
! www_q!! Frm!! Sur!! DF!! HTq!! HTq-Frm!! Seed_q!! class="unsortable"|Remarks, Signature
|-
| 22|| ???|| -|| N|| ???|| ???|| 11|| --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
|-
| 12|| ???|| -|| N|| ???|| ???|| 10|| --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
|-
| 26|| ???|| -|| N|| ???|| ???|| 19|| --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
|-
| 24|| ???|| -|| N|| ???|| ???|| 15|| --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
|-
| 24|| ???|| -|| N|| ???|| ???|| 13|| --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
|-
| 28|| ???|| -|| N|| ???|| ???|| 13|| --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
|}



'''''Info''''':
* '''www_q''': [[Wild Windsown Weed]] quality
* '''Frm''': The [[Farming]] level of the character that picked the WWW.
* '''Sur''': ''Optional!'' The [[Survival]] level of the character that picked the WWW.
Just in case the Dev's left_in/added some odd behavior.)
* '''DF''': [[Drying Frame]], Y,N. (''Optional! part'': Although the general concession is that drying frame either:
don't have any quality, Or that there quality don't matters.
If the DR-quality is tracked, drop in the q-total of the branches. (-1 being the alternative for "N".)
* '''HTq''': [[Herbalist Table]] quality. ("-1" or "N" in case a drying frame was used)
* '''HTq-Frm''': Farming level of the character putting the WWW on/in the Table.
* '''Seed_q''': The final seed quality after drying.
* '''Remarks, Signature''': For optional concise remarks/links/etc. Signature for easy source and history tracking.
(DR and HTq are mutually exclusive)
(None optional fields are deemed critical in trying in figure out what's up.)
(Incomplete, or deemed unreliable data/records will be removed from the table in due time.)

== Location or Rarity? ==

Having a hell of a time trying to get carrot seeds out of these things. I think that I've gotten most of my WWWs from the forest and only a few from grasslands and moors. I haven't encountered the heath terrain in my location. I haven't got beetroot as well as that is also another somewhat important crop. The seeds most common were Wheat and Flax. I also have gotten seeds for onions, peas, grapes, hemp, tea, tobacco, and the useless peppercorns and hop cones.(page for tobacco crop sucks) Perhaps the thing about different WWWs could be more specific. Or carrot seeds are really really rare.--[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 13:39, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

I think it's just random. Last world i had zero peppercorns for over 50 WWWs and this world i had to give up with poppies also after about 50 WWWs and both times i did harvest all over. --[[User:Rook|Rook]] 14:07, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

Seems there is still some uncertainty on the subject. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 15:24, 2 April 2012 (EDT) 
- [http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18518&p=214819#p214819 Re: Carrots]

So I guess seeds given by WWWs are more like fish and differ from area to area and the seeds given are not affected by terrain type(?). It's a bloody pain as I guess the seeds given from WWWs don't change like fish where you could use different bait lures or fish with a different moon. Testing was done with WWWs found in forests and WWWs found in moors? --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 18:54, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

:I don't know how it was tested. There might still be some random aspect to it. But there definitely seems to be a local preset in play. Ground type so far don't seems to matter. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 02:19, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

== Quality ==
I don't even think that the quality of a WWW affects the quality of the seed you get out of it on a drying rack or table. Perhaps verification is needed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 23:23, 23 May 2012 (EDT)
:?, "''Drying on a frame has no effect on quality.''" --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 05:14, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
Eh? Anyway, I'd like someone to test this and return with results. I'm not convinced. The quality of WWW and the quality of the seeds created seems random to me. I could believe somewhat that a table could cap somehow the quality of the seed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 07:36, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
:Someone? ... Please, finding WWW is not that hard. This is definite something you can do yourself. 
:In addition. '''Why''' do you question 'that drying racks do not effect final seed quality.' (as that's what I read in your text."'''?''') I mean here, what '''data''' do you have that makes you think its not correct. Just saying that you are questioning something, whiteout giving any additional reasons/data, is no very useful or clear. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 09:23, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
I think hes right, a good quality herbalist table gives you seeds higher than the WWW and usually on a frame I get lower quality seeds. guess since we have a new world its a good time to test this. I'll be making notes of all WWW I collect and what quality they are before and after frames and when I can I'll test a few different quality tables.[[User:ImAwesome|ImAwesome]]

:To bring this back up, I can confirm that drying on a rack will cut the quality of the WWW in half. I am unsure on quality related to herbalist table at this time but may experiment further in that area.
[[User:Smurfsrule|Smurfsrule]]
::I think I can say this is probably untrue, I think I got a ~33 peapod from a ~50ql WWW on a drying rack. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:50, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

== Quality of the Resulting Seed ==
The quality of the seed received from a dried Weed is apparently random but it seems that the quality of the herbalist table may cap its quality, perhaps even innately halving it. Drying on a rack doesn't seem to have a sort of cap but the quality of the seed from a dried weed is never higher than the quality of the Weed itself. Higher quality weeds, though, may turn into a higher quality seed than a seed from a lower quality weed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] (3 Sep 2013)
:Deadguy60. You probably mean well, But I strongly suggest you start putting in some effort showing that what you post (on main pages) is backed up by some test data. (+notes on main page should be concise.) --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 04:32, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
::It seems definitely random, if I must post test data, I'd like to see the test data/source on the information already provided. I simply posted a general observation and I attempted to be vague enough so that other people can update the page whenever more concrete data is found. The information about quality of the resulting seed on this page makes it sound like the you can calculate it but, nowhere in the information provided tells you some of the details of the information that I have tried to add. Information such as the randomness and the quality cap of the seed. And I do think that I may have added information that I should have posted to the talk page first but I didn't want to bother with the following discussion. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:21, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
:::Other bits of possibly useful data then. The trouble of collecting data is that people quickly start ignoring WWWs when they have the seeds for all the major crops. I was hoping this info would help prove point that there is still some utility in WWWs at this point. Once a person has found higher quality soil, they may find higher quality WWWs which may turn into higher quality seeds than what they already possess. Finding higher quality WWWs may be an alternative to raising the quality of crops by selective growing, especially the quality of pumpkins and crops a player doesn't grow regularly. I haven't personally observed seeing a higher quality seed resulting from a lower quality WWW. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:46, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
::Bah, nvm what i posted here originally, seems every one of us was getting different results on seed quality, that's why i agree with MV, a real test data is needed --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 14:31, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
:::I'll just post some results then. From two WWWs that I'm pretty certain were 40ql+, got 38 ql onion and 18 ql flax seeds from drying them on a rack. I partially believe that farming has an effect on the quality and for some reason possibly even the nature belief, but perhaps not likely. The bit of how the table quality may affect the quality of the resulting seeds might be a significant part of my information that I've been imagining. Table quality apparently affects the quality of everything else and so I have doubts of it simply halving the quality of the seed as this page currently says. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:44, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

== Stuff 2 ==

I'm about to tug myself in for the night, well ... trying. Oops, its already getting light outside. Anyway. "''The systematic, careful collection of measurements or counts of relevant quantities is often the critical difference between pseudo-sciences, such as alchemy, and science, such as chemistry or biology.''" Source: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method wikipedia:Scientific_method]. 
Maybes, Pretty sure's, or other not directly logged and written down observations are fine for forming hypothesis(ideas) about what might or might not be. But that's where they will stay(on the talk pages) without some serious HnH observations time and data recording effort(s). --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 00:07, 4 September 2013 (EDT)

:Make what you will from this. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
[[File:Deadguy60_Tests_WWW_on_Table.png]]

::Now this is perfect :) , could you add (in case any of it influences results) table QL, farming of character that picked WWWs and farming of character that put them on the table, if different (and anything else you think might play a role) --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 07:50, 4 September 2013 (EDT)

::What Rook said. +Renamed your images with more descriptive names. --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 10:54, 4 September 2013 (EDT)

Um, someone get rid of the apparently incorrect information about the halving in quality.
These seem to be the questions we are to answer:
*Is the quality of the resulting seed random?
*Does the table quality affect the resulting seed's quality?
*Does the forager or person who placed the weed on the table affect the resulting seed's quality?
*Is there any relation to the quality of the WWW to the resulting seed?
I can't be bothered to guesstimate the quality of my tables. Lets say it was made with 20-25 ql fibers, 31 ql boards, 10 ql blocks. Three characters were involved, a non-forager with 39 farming, a forager with 19 farming, and a forager with 1 farming but I can't tell you who foraged what and who put the weeds on the table or racks. Anyway, we all seen seeds from WWWs with single digit quality on racks and maybe tables right? Also the 28 ql weed turned into 13 ql tea seeds. I'm thinking soil quality of the area might have an effect but I live mostly in a cave. "Forage/soil" quality in the cave though seems to be ~22 form my experience on what I foraged there. I'm thinking that there are soil nodes on every tile but sometimes they are overlapped with other resource nodes. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:32, 4 September 2013 (EDT)

I'll just post this possibility, the table could still half the quality, but do something like +/- 5 to the final quality of the seed and also softcap that.--[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 12:24, 4 September 2013 (EDT)

:Added Table for data dumping. Quickly skimming true new messages. "I can't be bothered ..." Erm, not a good sign. *run's of to do some shopping* .. After reading up, I think its better to let Rook answer (If you like of course) --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 14:12, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
::[[File:Deadguy60_Tests_WWW_on_DryingFrame.png]]--[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:28, 4 September 2013 (EDT)

File:Legacy-Deadguy60 Tests WWW on DryingFrame.png

2013-09-05T02:27:31Z

Deadguy60: Deadguy60 uploaded a new version of "File:Deadguy60 Tests WWW on DryingFrame.png": results of test.

a small test. a long wait.

Legacy talk:Wild Windsown Weed

2013-09-04T16:24:38Z

Deadguy60: /* Stuff 2 */

==Stuff==
* WWW found with perc*expl=80, [http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/knob_hush/Picture8.png Image], By [[User:JustOneAsbesto|JustOneAsbesto]](6 Mar 2011)

* It seems that it spawns more rarely in coniferous forest than to grassland and heath. By [[User:Trepach|Trepach]](22 Nov 2011) {{verify}}

* Drying on a frame has no effect on the quality. {{verify}}
* Drying on an herbalist table halves the quality. {{verify}}
''(Note: I think that (true) verification involves a bit more than just showing one single case (or case-set) that fits the current target.)'' --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 15:01, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

==Data Collection Table==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
|+ -- Wild Windsown Weed --
! www_q!! Frm!! Sur!! DR!! HTq!! HTq-Frm!! Seed_q!! class="unsortable"|Remarks, Signature
|-
| 22|| ???|| -|| N|| ???|| ???|| 11|| --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
|-
| 12|| ???|| -|| N|| ???|| ???|| 10|| --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
|-
| 26|| ???|| -|| N|| ???|| ???|| 19|| --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
|-
| 24|| ???|| -|| N|| ???|| ???|| 15|| --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
|-
| 24|| ???|| -|| N|| ???|| ???|| 13|| --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
|-
| 28|| ???|| -|| N|| ???|| ???|| WIP|| ...
|}



'''''Info''''':
* '''www_q''': [[Wild Windsown Weed]] quality
* '''Frm''': The [[Farming]] level of the character that picked the WWW.
* '''Sur''': ''Optional!'' The [[Survival]] level of the character that picked the WWW.
Just in case the Dev's left_in/added some odd behavior.)
* '''DR''': [[Drying Rack]], Y,N. (''Optional! part'': Although the general concession is that drying racks either:
don't have any quality, Or that there quality don't matters.
If the DR-quality is tracked, drop in the q-total of the branches. (-1 being the alternative for "N".)
* '''HTq''': [[Herbalist Table]] quality. ("-1" or "N" in case a drying rack was used)
* '''HTq-Frm''': Farming level of the character putting the WWW on/in the Table.
* '''Seed_q''': The final seed quality after drying.
* '''Remarks, Signature''': For optional concise remarks/links/etc. Signature for easy source and history tracking.
(DR and HTq are mutually exclusive)
(None optional fields are deemed critical in trying in figure out what's up.)

== Location or Rarity? ==

Having a hell of a time trying to get carrot seeds out of these things. I think that I've gotten most of my WWWs from the forest and only a few from grasslands and moors. I haven't encountered the heath terrain in my location. I haven't got beetroot as well as that is also another somewhat important crop. The seeds most common were Wheat and Flax. I also have gotten seeds for onions, peas, grapes, hemp, tea, tobacco, and the useless peppercorns and hop cones.(page for tobacco crop sucks) Perhaps the thing about different WWWs could be more specific. Or carrot seeds are really really rare.--[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 13:39, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

I think it's just random. Last world i had zero peppercorns for over 50 WWWs and this world i had to give up with poppies also after about 50 WWWs and both times i did harvest all over. --[[User:Rook|Rook]] 14:07, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

Seems there is still some uncertainty on the subject. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 15:24, 2 April 2012 (EDT) 
- [http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18518&p=214819#p214819 Re: Carrots]

So I guess seeds given by WWWs are more like fish and differ from area to area and the seeds given are not affected by terrain type(?). It's a bloody pain as I guess the seeds given from WWWs don't change like fish where you could use different bait lures or fish with a different moon. Testing was done with WWWs found in forests and WWWs found in moors? --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 18:54, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

:I don't know how it was tested. There might still be some random aspect to it. But there definitely seems to be a local preset in play. Ground type so far don't seems to matter. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 02:19, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

== Quality ==
I don't even think that the quality of a WWW affects the quality of the seed you get out of it on a drying rack or table. Perhaps verification is needed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 23:23, 23 May 2012 (EDT)
:?, "''Drying on a frame has no effect on quality.''" --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 05:14, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
Eh? Anyway, I'd like someone to test this and return with results. I'm not convinced. The quality of WWW and the quality of the seeds created seems random to me. I could believe somewhat that a table could cap somehow the quality of the seed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 07:36, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
:Someone? ... Please, finding WWW is not that hard. This is definite something you can do yourself. 
:In addition. '''Why''' do you question 'that drying racks do not effect final seed quality.' (as that's what I read in your text."'''?''') I mean here, what '''data''' do you have that makes you think its not correct. Just saying that you are questioning something, whiteout giving any additional reasons/data, is no very useful or clear. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 09:23, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
I think hes right, a good quality herbalist table gives you seeds higher than the WWW and usually on a frame I get lower quality seeds. guess since we have a new world its a good time to test this. I'll be making notes of all WWW I collect and what quality they are before and after frames and when I can I'll test a few different quality tables.[[User:ImAwesome|ImAwesome]]

:To bring this back up, I can confirm that drying on a rack will cut the quality of the WWW in half. I am unsure on quality related to herbalist table at this time but may experiment further in that area.
[[User:Smurfsrule|Smurfsrule]]
::I think I can say this is probably untrue, I think I got a ~33 peapod from a ~50ql WWW on a drying rack. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:50, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

== Quality of the Resulting Seed ==
The quality of the seed received from a dried Weed is apparently random but it seems that the quality of the herbalist table may cap its quality, perhaps even innately halving it. Drying on a rack doesn't seem to have a sort of cap but the quality of the seed from a dried weed is never higher than the quality of the Weed itself. Higher quality weeds, though, may turn into a higher quality seed than a seed from a lower quality weed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] (3 Sep 2013)
:Deadguy60. You probably mean well, But I strongly suggest you start putting in some effort showing that what you post (on main pages) is backed up by some test data. (+notes on main page should be concise.) --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 04:32, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
::It seems definitely random, if I must post test data, I'd like to see the test data/source on the information already provided. I simply posted a general observation and I attempted to be vague enough so that other people can update the page whenever more concrete data is found. The information about quality of the resulting seed on this page makes it sound like the you can calculate it but, nowhere in the information provided tells you some of the details of the information that I have tried to add. Information such as the randomness and the quality cap of the seed. And I do think that I may have added information that I should have posted to the talk page first but I didn't want to bother with the following discussion. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:21, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
:::Other bits of possibly useful data then. The trouble of collecting data is that people quickly start ignoring WWWs when they have the seeds for all the major crops. I was hoping this info would help prove point that there is still some utility in WWWs at this point. Once a person has found higher quality soil, they may find higher quality WWWs which may turn into higher quality seeds than what they already possess. Finding higher quality WWWs may be an alternative to raising the quality of crops by selective growing, especially the quality of pumpkins and crops a player doesn't grow regularly. I haven't personally observed seeing a higher quality seed resulting from a lower quality WWW. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:46, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
::Bah, nvm what i posted here originally, seems every one of us was getting different results on seed quality, that's why i agree with MV, a real test data is needed --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 14:31, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
:::I'll just post some results then. From two WWWs that I'm pretty certain were 40ql+, got 38 ql onion and 18 ql flax seeds from drying them on a rack. I partially believe that farming has an effect on the quality and for some reason possibly even the nature belief, but perhaps not likely. The bit of how the table quality may affect the quality of the resulting seeds might be a significant part of my information that I've been imagining. Table quality apparently affects the quality of everything else and so I have doubts of it simply halving the quality of the seed as this page currently says. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:44, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

== Stuff 2 ==

I'm about to tug myself in for the night, well ... trying. Oops, its already getting light outside. Anyway. "''The systematic, careful collection of measurements or counts of relevant quantities is often the critical difference between pseudo-sciences, such as alchemy, and science, such as chemistry or biology.''" Source: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method wikipedia:Scientific_method]. 
Maybes, Pretty sure's, or other not directly logged and written down observations are fine for forming hypothesis(ideas) about what might or might not be. But that's where they will stay(on the talk pages) without some serious HnH observations time and data recording effort(s). --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 00:07, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
:Make what you will from this. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
[[File:Deadguy60_Tests_WWW_on_Table.png]]
::Now this is perfect :) , could you add (in case any of it influences results) table QL, farming of character that picked WWWs and farming of character that put them on the table, if different (and anything else you think might play a role) --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 07:50, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
::What Rook said. +Renamed your images with more descriptive names. --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 10:54, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
Um, someone get rid of the apparently incorrect information about the halving in quality.
These seem to be the questions we are to answer:
*Is the quality of the resulting seed random?
*Does the table quality affect the resulting seed's quality?
*Does the forager or person who placed the weed on the table affect the resulting seed's quality?
*Is there any relation to the quality of the WWW to the resulting seed?
I can't be bothered to guesstimate the quality of my tables. Lets say it was made with 20-25 ql fibers, 31 ql boards, 10 ql blocks. Three characters were involved, a non-forager with 39 farming, a forager with 19 farming, and a forager with 1 farming but I can't tell you who foraged what and who put the weeds on the table or racks. Anyway, we all seen seeds from WWWs with single digit quality on racks and maybe tables right? Also the 28 ql weed turned into 13 ql tea seeds. I'm thinking soil quality of the area might have an effect but I live mostly in a cave. "Forage/soil" quality in the cave though seems to be ~22 form my experience on what I foraged there. I'm thinking that there are soil nodes on every tile but sometimes they are overlapped with other resource nodes. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:32, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
:I'll just post this possibility, the table could still half the quality, but do something like +/- 5 to the final quality of the seed and also softcap that.--[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 12:24, 4 September 2013 (EDT)

Legacy talk:Wild Windsown Weed

2013-09-04T15:39:23Z

Deadguy60: /* Stuff 2 */

==Stuff==
* WWW found with perc*expl=80, [http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/knob_hush/Picture8.png Image], By [[User:JustOneAsbesto|JustOneAsbesto]](6 Mar 2011)

* It seems that it spawns more rarely in coniferous forest than to grassland and heath. By [[User:Trepach|Trepach]](22 Nov 2011) {{verify}}

* Drying on a frame has no effect on the quality. {{verify}}
* Drying on an herbalist table halves the quality. {{verify}}
''(Note: I think that (true) verification involves a bit more than just showing one single case (or case-set) that fits the current target.)'' --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 15:01, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

== Location or Rarity? ==

Having a hell of a time trying to get carrot seeds out of these things. I think that I've gotten most of my WWWs from the forest and only a few from grasslands and moors. I haven't encountered the heath terrain in my location. I haven't got beetroot as well as that is also another somewhat important crop. The seeds most common were Wheat and Flax. I also have gotten seeds for onions, peas, grapes, hemp, tea, tobacco, and the useless peppercorns and hop cones.(page for tobacco crop sucks) Perhaps the thing about different WWWs could be more specific. Or carrot seeds are really really rare.--[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 13:39, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

I think it's just random. Last world i had zero peppercorns for over 50 WWWs and this world i had to give up with poppies also after about 50 WWWs and both times i did harvest all over. --[[User:Rook|Rook]] 14:07, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

Seems there is still some uncertainty on the subject. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 15:24, 2 April 2012 (EDT) 
- [http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18518&p=214819#p214819 Re: Carrots]

So I guess seeds given by WWWs are more like fish and differ from area to area and the seeds given are not affected by terrain type(?). It's a bloody pain as I guess the seeds given from WWWs don't change like fish where you could use different bait lures or fish with a different moon. Testing was done with WWWs found in forests and WWWs found in moors? --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 18:54, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

:I don't know how it was tested. There might still be some random aspect to it. But there definitely seems to be a local preset in play. Ground type so far don't seems to matter. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 02:19, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

== Quality ==
I don't even think that the quality of a WWW affects the quality of the seed you get out of it on a drying rack or table. Perhaps verification is needed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 23:23, 23 May 2012 (EDT)
:?, "''Drying on a frame has no effect on quality.''" --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 05:14, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
Eh? Anyway, I'd like someone to test this and return with results. I'm not convinced. The quality of WWW and the quality of the seeds created seems random to me. I could believe somewhat that a table could cap somehow the quality of the seed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 07:36, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
:Someone? ... Please, finding WWW is not that hard. This is definite something you can do yourself. 
:In addition. '''Why''' do you question 'that drying racks do not effect final seed quality.' (as that's what I read in your text."'''?''') I mean here, what '''data''' do you have that makes you think its not correct. Just saying that you are questioning something, whiteout giving any additional reasons/data, is no very useful or clear. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 09:23, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
I think hes right, a good quality herbalist table gives you seeds higher than the WWW and usually on a frame I get lower quality seeds. guess since we have a new world its a good time to test this. I'll be making notes of all WWW I collect and what quality they are before and after frames and when I can I'll test a few different quality tables.[[User:ImAwesome|ImAwesome]]

:To bring this back up, I can confirm that drying on a rack will cut the quality of the WWW in half. I am unsure on quality related to herbalist table at this time but may experiment further in that area.
[[User:Smurfsrule|Smurfsrule]]
::I think I can say this is probably untrue, I think I got a ~33 peapod from a ~50ql WWW on a drying rack. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:50, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

== Quality of the Resulting Seed ==
The quality of the seed received from a dried Weed is apparently random but it seems that the quality of the herbalist table may cap its quality, perhaps even innately halving it. Drying on a rack doesn't seem to have a sort of cap but the quality of the seed from a dried weed is never higher than the quality of the Weed itself. Higher quality weeds, though, may turn into a higher quality seed than a seed from a lower quality weed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] (3 Sep 2013)
:Deadguy60. You probably mean well, But I strongly suggest you start putting in some effort showing that what you post (on main pages) is backed up by some test data. (+notes on main page should be concise.) --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 04:32, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
::It seems definitely random, if I must post test data, I'd like to see the test data/source on the information already provided. I simply posted a general observation and I attempted to be vague enough so that other people can update the page whenever more concrete data is found. The information about quality of the resulting seed on this page makes it sound like the you can calculate it but, nowhere in the information provided tells you some of the details of the information that I have tried to add. Information such as the randomness and the quality cap of the seed. And I do think that I may have added information that I should have posted to the talk page first but I didn't want to bother with the following discussion. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:21, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
:::Other bits of possibly useful data then. The trouble of collecting data is that people quickly start ignoring WWWs when they have the seeds for all the major crops. I was hoping this info would help prove point that there is still some utility in WWWs at this point. Once a person has found higher quality soil, they may find higher quality WWWs which may turn into higher quality seeds than what they already possess. Finding higher quality WWWs may be an alternative to raising the quality of crops by selective growing, especially the quality of pumpkins and crops a player doesn't grow regularly. I haven't personally observed seeing a higher quality seed resulting from a lower quality WWW. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:46, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
::Bah, nvm what i posted here originally, seems every one of us was getting different results on seed quality, that's why i agree with MV, a real test data is needed --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 14:31, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
:::I'll just post some results then. From two WWWs that I'm pretty certain were 40ql+, got 38 ql onion and 18 ql flax seeds from drying them on a rack. I partially believe that farming has an effect on the quality and for some reason possibly even the nature belief, but perhaps not likely. The bit of how the table quality may affect the quality of the resulting seeds might be a significant part of my information that I've been imagining. Table quality apparently affects the quality of everything else and so I have doubts of it simply halving the quality of the seed as this page currently says. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:44, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

== Stuff 2 ==

I'm about to tug myself in for the night, well ... trying. Oops, its already getting light outside. Anyway. "''The systematic, careful collection of measurements or counts of relevant quantities is often the critical difference between pseudo-sciences, such as alchemy, and science, such as chemistry or biology.''" Source: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method wikipedia:Scientific_method]. 
Maybes, Pretty sure's, or other not directly logged and written down observations are fine for forming hypothesis(ideas) about what might or might not be. But that's where they will stay(on the talk pages) without some serious HnH observations time and data recording effort(s). --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 00:07, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
:Make what you will from this. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
[[File:Deadguy60_Tests_WWW_on_Table.png]]
::Now this is perfect :) , could you add (in case any of it influences results) table QL, farming of character that picked WWWs and farming of character that put them on the table, if different (and anything else you think might play a role) --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 07:50, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
::What Rook said. +Renamed your images with more descriptive names. --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 10:54, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
Um, someone get rid of the apparently incorrect information about the halving in quality.
These seem to be the questions we are to answer:
*Is the quality of the resulting seed random?
*Does the table quality affect the resulting seed's quality?
*Does the forager or person who placed the weed on the table affect the resulting seed's quality?
*Is there any relation to the quality of the WWW to the resulting seed?
I can't be bothered to guesstimate the quality of my tables. Lets say it was made with 20-25 ql fibers, 31 ql boards, 10 ql blocks. Three characters were involved, a non-forager with 39 farming, a forager with 19 farming, and a forager with 1 farming but I can't tell you who foraged what and who put the weeds on the table or racks. Anyway, we all seen seeds from WWWs with single digit quality on racks and maybe tables right? Also the 28 ql weed turned into 13 ql tea seeds. I'm thinking soil quality of the area might have an effect but I live mostly in a cave. "Forage/soil" quality in the cave though seems to be ~22 form my experience on what I foraged there. I'm thinking that there are soil nodes on every tile but sometimes they are overlapped with other resource nodes. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:32, 4 September 2013 (EDT)

Legacy talk:Wild Windsown Weed

2013-09-04T15:37:30Z

Deadguy60: /* Stuff 2 */

==Stuff==
* WWW found with perc*expl=80, [http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/knob_hush/Picture8.png Image], By [[User:JustOneAsbesto|JustOneAsbesto]](6 Mar 2011)

* It seems that it spawns more rarely in coniferous forest than to grassland and heath. By [[User:Trepach|Trepach]](22 Nov 2011) {{verify}}

* Drying on a frame has no effect on the quality. {{verify}}
* Drying on an herbalist table halves the quality. {{verify}}
''(Note: I think that (true) verification involves a bit more than just showing one single case (or case-set) that fits the current target.)'' --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 15:01, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

== Location or Rarity? ==

Having a hell of a time trying to get carrot seeds out of these things. I think that I've gotten most of my WWWs from the forest and only a few from grasslands and moors. I haven't encountered the heath terrain in my location. I haven't got beetroot as well as that is also another somewhat important crop. The seeds most common were Wheat and Flax. I also have gotten seeds for onions, peas, grapes, hemp, tea, tobacco, and the useless peppercorns and hop cones.(page for tobacco crop sucks) Perhaps the thing about different WWWs could be more specific. Or carrot seeds are really really rare.--[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 13:39, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

I think it's just random. Last world i had zero peppercorns for over 50 WWWs and this world i had to give up with poppies also after about 50 WWWs and both times i did harvest all over. --[[User:Rook|Rook]] 14:07, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

Seems there is still some uncertainty on the subject. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 15:24, 2 April 2012 (EDT) 
- [http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18518&p=214819#p214819 Re: Carrots]

So I guess seeds given by WWWs are more like fish and differ from area to area and the seeds given are not affected by terrain type(?). It's a bloody pain as I guess the seeds given from WWWs don't change like fish where you could use different bait lures or fish with a different moon. Testing was done with WWWs found in forests and WWWs found in moors? --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 18:54, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

:I don't know how it was tested. There might still be some random aspect to it. But there definitely seems to be a local preset in play. Ground type so far don't seems to matter. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 02:19, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

== Quality ==
I don't even think that the quality of a WWW affects the quality of the seed you get out of it on a drying rack or table. Perhaps verification is needed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 23:23, 23 May 2012 (EDT)
:?, "''Drying on a frame has no effect on quality.''" --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 05:14, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
Eh? Anyway, I'd like someone to test this and return with results. I'm not convinced. The quality of WWW and the quality of the seeds created seems random to me. I could believe somewhat that a table could cap somehow the quality of the seed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 07:36, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
:Someone? ... Please, finding WWW is not that hard. This is definite something you can do yourself. 
:In addition. '''Why''' do you question 'that drying racks do not effect final seed quality.' (as that's what I read in your text."'''?''') I mean here, what '''data''' do you have that makes you think its not correct. Just saying that you are questioning something, whiteout giving any additional reasons/data, is no very useful or clear. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 09:23, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
I think hes right, a good quality herbalist table gives you seeds higher than the WWW and usually on a frame I get lower quality seeds. guess since we have a new world its a good time to test this. I'll be making notes of all WWW I collect and what quality they are before and after frames and when I can I'll test a few different quality tables.[[User:ImAwesome|ImAwesome]]

:To bring this back up, I can confirm that drying on a rack will cut the quality of the WWW in half. I am unsure on quality related to herbalist table at this time but may experiment further in that area.
[[User:Smurfsrule|Smurfsrule]]
::I think I can say this is probably untrue, I think I got a ~33 peapod from a ~50ql WWW on a drying rack. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:50, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

== Quality of the Resulting Seed ==
The quality of the seed received from a dried Weed is apparently random but it seems that the quality of the herbalist table may cap its quality, perhaps even innately halving it. Drying on a rack doesn't seem to have a sort of cap but the quality of the seed from a dried weed is never higher than the quality of the Weed itself. Higher quality weeds, though, may turn into a higher quality seed than a seed from a lower quality weed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] (3 Sep 2013)
:Deadguy60. You probably mean well, But I strongly suggest you start putting in some effort showing that what you post (on main pages) is backed up by some test data. (+notes on main page should be concise.) --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 04:32, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
::It seems definitely random, if I must post test data, I'd like to see the test data/source on the information already provided. I simply posted a general observation and I attempted to be vague enough so that other people can update the page whenever more concrete data is found. The information about quality of the resulting seed on this page makes it sound like the you can calculate it but, nowhere in the information provided tells you some of the details of the information that I have tried to add. Information such as the randomness and the quality cap of the seed. And I do think that I may have added information that I should have posted to the talk page first but I didn't want to bother with the following discussion. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:21, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
:::Other bits of possibly useful data then. The trouble of collecting data is that people quickly start ignoring WWWs when they have the seeds for all the major crops. I was hoping this info would help prove point that there is still some utility in WWWs at this point. Once a person has found higher quality soil, they may find higher quality WWWs which may turn into higher quality seeds than what they already possess. Finding higher quality WWWs may be an alternative to raising the quality of crops by selective growing, especially the quality of pumpkins and crops a player doesn't grow regularly. I haven't personally observed seeing a higher quality seed resulting from a lower quality WWW. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:46, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
::Bah, nvm what i posted here originally, seems every one of us was getting different results on seed quality, that's why i agree with MV, a real test data is needed --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 14:31, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
:::I'll just post some results then. From two WWWs that I'm pretty certain were 40ql+, got 38 ql onion and 18 ql flax seeds from drying them on a rack. I partially believe that farming has an effect on the quality and for some reason possibly even the nature belief, but perhaps not likely. The bit of how the table quality may affect the quality of the resulting seeds might be a significant part of my information that I've been imagining. Table quality apparently affects the quality of everything else and so I have doubts of it simply halving the quality of the seed as this page currently says. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:44, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

== Stuff 2 ==

I'm about to tug myself in for the night, well ... trying. Oops, its already getting light outside. Anyway. "''The systematic, careful collection of measurements or counts of relevant quantities is often the critical difference between pseudo-sciences, such as alchemy, and science, such as chemistry or biology.''" Source: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method wikipedia:Scientific_method]. 
Maybes, Pretty sure's, or other not directly logged and written down observations are fine for forming hypothesis(ideas) about what might or might not be. But that's where they will stay(on the talk pages) without some serious HnH observations time and data recording effort(s). --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 00:07, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
:Make what you will from this. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
[[File:Deadguy60_Tests_WWW_on_Table.png]]
::Now this is perfect :) , could you add (in case any of it influences results) table QL, farming of character that picked WWWs and farming of character that put them on the table, if different (and anything else you think might play a role) --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 07:50, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
::What Rook said. +Renamed your images with more descriptive names. --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 10:54, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
Um, someone get rid of the apparently incorrect information about the halving in quality.
These seem to be the questions we are to answer:
*Is the quality of the resulting seed random?
*Does the table quality affect the resulting seed's quality?
*Does the forager or person who placed the weed on the table affect the resulting seed's quality?
*Is there any relation to the quality of the WWW to the resulting seed?
I can't be bothered to guesstimate the quality of my tables. Lets say it was made with 20-25 ql fibers, 31 ql boards, 10 ql blocks. Three characters were involved, a non-forager with 39 farming, a forager with 19 farming, and a forager with 1 farming but I can't tell you who foraged what and who put the weeds on the table or racks. Anyway, we all seen seeds from WWWs with single digit quality on racks and maybe tables right? Also the 28 ql weed turned into 13 ql tea leaves. I'm thinking soil quality of the area might have an effect but I live mostly in a cave. "Forage/soil" quality in the cave though seems to be ~22 form my experience on what I foraged there. I'm thinking that there are soil nodes on every tile but sometimes they are overlapped with other resource nodes. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:32, 4 September 2013 (EDT)

Legacy talk:Wild Windsown Weed

2013-09-04T15:32:57Z

Deadguy60: /* Stuff 2 */

==Stuff==
* WWW found with perc*expl=80, [http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/knob_hush/Picture8.png Image], By [[User:JustOneAsbesto|JustOneAsbesto]](6 Mar 2011)

* It seems that it spawns more rarely in coniferous forest than to grassland and heath. By [[User:Trepach|Trepach]](22 Nov 2011) {{verify}}

* Drying on a frame has no effect on the quality. {{verify}}
* Drying on an herbalist table halves the quality. {{verify}}
''(Note: I think that (true) verification involves a bit more than just showing one single case (or case-set) that fits the current target.)'' --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 15:01, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

== Location or Rarity? ==

Having a hell of a time trying to get carrot seeds out of these things. I think that I've gotten most of my WWWs from the forest and only a few from grasslands and moors. I haven't encountered the heath terrain in my location. I haven't got beetroot as well as that is also another somewhat important crop. The seeds most common were Wheat and Flax. I also have gotten seeds for onions, peas, grapes, hemp, tea, tobacco, and the useless peppercorns and hop cones.(page for tobacco crop sucks) Perhaps the thing about different WWWs could be more specific. Or carrot seeds are really really rare.--[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 13:39, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

I think it's just random. Last world i had zero peppercorns for over 50 WWWs and this world i had to give up with poppies also after about 50 WWWs and both times i did harvest all over. --[[User:Rook|Rook]] 14:07, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

Seems there is still some uncertainty on the subject. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 15:24, 2 April 2012 (EDT) 
- [http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18518&p=214819#p214819 Re: Carrots]

So I guess seeds given by WWWs are more like fish and differ from area to area and the seeds given are not affected by terrain type(?). It's a bloody pain as I guess the seeds given from WWWs don't change like fish where you could use different bait lures or fish with a different moon. Testing was done with WWWs found in forests and WWWs found in moors? --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 18:54, 2 April 2012 (EDT)

:I don't know how it was tested. There might still be some random aspect to it. But there definitely seems to be a local preset in play. Ground type so far don't seems to matter. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 02:19, 3 April 2012 (EDT)

== Quality ==
I don't even think that the quality of a WWW affects the quality of the seed you get out of it on a drying rack or table. Perhaps verification is needed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 23:23, 23 May 2012 (EDT)
:?, "''Drying on a frame has no effect on quality.''" --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 05:14, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
Eh? Anyway, I'd like someone to test this and return with results. I'm not convinced. The quality of WWW and the quality of the seeds created seems random to me. I could believe somewhat that a table could cap somehow the quality of the seed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] 07:36, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
:Someone? ... Please, finding WWW is not that hard. This is definite something you can do yourself. 
:In addition. '''Why''' do you question 'that drying racks do not effect final seed quality.' (as that's what I read in your text."'''?''') I mean here, what '''data''' do you have that makes you think its not correct. Just saying that you are questioning something, whiteout giving any additional reasons/data, is no very useful or clear. --[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] 09:23, 24 May 2012 (EDT)
I think hes right, a good quality herbalist table gives you seeds higher than the WWW and usually on a frame I get lower quality seeds. guess since we have a new world its a good time to test this. I'll be making notes of all WWW I collect and what quality they are before and after frames and when I can I'll test a few different quality tables.[[User:ImAwesome|ImAwesome]]

:To bring this back up, I can confirm that drying on a rack will cut the quality of the WWW in half. I am unsure on quality related to herbalist table at this time but may experiment further in that area.
[[User:Smurfsrule|Smurfsrule]]
::I think I can say this is probably untrue, I think I got a ~33 peapod from a ~50ql WWW on a drying rack. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:50, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

== Quality of the Resulting Seed ==
The quality of the seed received from a dried Weed is apparently random but it seems that the quality of the herbalist table may cap its quality, perhaps even innately halving it. Drying on a rack doesn't seem to have a sort of cap but the quality of the seed from a dried weed is never higher than the quality of the Weed itself. Higher quality weeds, though, may turn into a higher quality seed than a seed from a lower quality weed. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] (3 Sep 2013)
:Deadguy60. You probably mean well, But I strongly suggest you start putting in some effort showing that what you post (on main pages) is backed up by some test data. (+notes on main page should be concise.) --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 04:32, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
::It seems definitely random, if I must post test data, I'd like to see the test data/source on the information already provided. I simply posted a general observation and I attempted to be vague enough so that other people can update the page whenever more concrete data is found. The information about quality of the resulting seed on this page makes it sound like the you can calculate it but, nowhere in the information provided tells you some of the details of the information that I have tried to add. Information such as the randomness and the quality cap of the seed. And I do think that I may have added information that I should have posted to the talk page first but I didn't want to bother with the following discussion. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:21, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
:::Other bits of possibly useful data then. The trouble of collecting data is that people quickly start ignoring WWWs when they have the seeds for all the major crops. I was hoping this info would help prove point that there is still some utility in WWWs at this point. Once a person has found higher quality soil, they may find higher quality WWWs which may turn into higher quality seeds than what they already possess. Finding higher quality WWWs may be an alternative to raising the quality of crops by selective growing, especially the quality of pumpkins and crops a player doesn't grow regularly. I haven't personally observed seeing a higher quality seed resulting from a lower quality WWW. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:46, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
::Bah, nvm what i posted here originally, seems every one of us was getting different results on seed quality, that's why i agree with MV, a real test data is needed --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 14:31, 3 September 2013 (EDT)
:::I'll just post some results then. From two WWWs that I'm pretty certain were 40ql+, got 38 ql onion and 18 ql flax seeds from drying them on a rack. I partially believe that farming has an effect on the quality and for some reason possibly even the nature belief, but perhaps not likely. The bit of how the table quality may affect the quality of the resulting seeds might be a significant part of my information that I've been imagining. Table quality apparently affects the quality of everything else and so I have doubts of it simply halving the quality of the seed as this page currently says. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 22:44, 3 September 2013 (EDT)

== Stuff 2 ==

I'm about to tug myself in for the night, well ... trying. Oops, its already getting light outside. Anyway. "''The systematic, careful collection of measurements or counts of relevant quantities is often the critical difference between pseudo-sciences, such as alchemy, and science, such as chemistry or biology.''" Source: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method wikipedia:Scientific_method]. 
Maybes, Pretty sure's, or other not directly logged and written down observations are fine for forming hypothesis(ideas) about what might or might not be. But that's where they will stay(on the talk pages) without some serious HnH observations time and data recording effort(s). --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 00:07, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
:Make what you will from this. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 05:43, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
[[File:Deadguy60_Tests_WWW_on_Table.png]]
::Now this is perfect :) , could you add (in case any of it influences results) table QL, farming of character that picked WWWs and farming of character that put them on the table, if different (and anything else you think might play a role) --[[User:Rook|Rook]] ([[User talk:Rook|talk]]) 07:50, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
::What Rook said. +Renamed your images with more descriptive names. --[[User_talk:MvGulik|.MvGulik.]] 10:54, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
Um, someone get rid of the apparently incorrect information about the halving in quality.
These seem to be the questions we are to answer:
*Is the quality of the resulting seed random?
*Does the table quality affect the resulting seed's quality?
*Does the forager or person who placed the weed on the table affect the resulting seed's quality?
*Is there any relation to the quality of the WWW to the resulting seed?
I can't be bothered to guesstimate the quality of my tables. Three characters were involved, a non-forager with 39 farming, a forager with 19 farming, and a forager with 1 farming but I can't tell you who foraged what and who put the weeds on the table or racks. Anyway, we all seen seeds from WWWs with single digit quality on racks and maybe tables right? Also the 28 ql weed turned into 13 ql tea leaves. I'm thinking soil quality of the area might have an effect but I live mostly in a cave. "Forage/soil" quality in the cave though seems to be ~22. I'm thinking that there are soil nodes on every tile but sometimes they are overlapped with other resource nodes. --[[User:Deadguy60|Deadguy60]] ([[User talk:Deadguy60|talk]]) 11:32, 4 September 2013 (EDT)