Legacy talk:Tree

Tree Formula Experiments thread

Xcom Tree Experiment:
http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34953 --Borka (talk) 07:04, 25 January 2015 (EST)

Alternative location for reporting failure cases:
http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38213 --.MvGulik. 04:44, 27 January 2015 (EST)

Tree hitbox data

-- Tree hitbox data --	stage-1	st-2	st-3	st-4	st-5	st-6	(rel tile size|min dist*)
01) Apple Tree		0/none	6	10	16	28	28	(1.27~|2.54~)
02) Birch Tree		0/none	10	12	14	22	22	(1.000|2.0)
03) Elm Tree		0/none	10	14	16	20	22	(1.000|2.0)
04) Fir Tree		0/none	6	16	22	32	32	(1.45~|2.90~)
05) Hazelnut Tree	0/none	10	12	14	16	20	(0.91~|1.81~)
06) Maple Tree		0/none	8	16	18	30	30	(1.36~|2.72~)
07) Mulberry Tree	0/none	4	6	10	14	18	(0.82~|1.63~)
08) Oak Tree		0/none	12	14	20	30	30	(1.36~|2.72~)
09) Pine Tree		0/none	12	16	18	20	24	(1.09~|2.18~)
10) Willow Tree 	0/none	12	14	16	26	28	(1.27~|2.54~)
11) Yew Tree 		0/none	8	9	10	18	18	(0.82~|1.63~)

*) Minimum (theoretical) save distance in tiles between two tree's of the same type. (hitbox-L6 y/11)
For any two tree types: "(max(t1,t2)*3 + min(t1,t2))/44".
Any tree(type and level) safety zone seems to be its next-level hitbox-size times 3.

-- notes --
(Data pulled from local Res files. Size in Y units, X=2Y.)
(LayerUtil: neg_0.data, #Coord bc[-Y|up], #Coord bs[+Y|down].)
(Hitbox diamond generally centered around object origin.)
(Willow-4: not centered around org like other trees. (-7,+9))
(On screen visual hitbox size may differ a pixel or two(diameter).)
- Assuming game tile/grid size of 44x22.
- Intended for tree growing/stunted stuff.
- This Res setting only effects the DRAWN hitbox, not the real one you bump into.
--[[User:MvGulik|MvGulik]] xx:xx, 6 May 2013 (EST)

Soft-capping / Formula's

Stuff taken as facts:

• Softcapping on the tree is done when putting the seed in the tree-planters pot.
• The none-softcapped base formula is still not found.
• The additional tree q-variation on the tree is (-5..+2).

-- 2011 --

That information on farming skill softcapping the tree quality by whom plants it, is it referring to who sprouts the tree, or who actually plants it in the ground? Unless it's who sprouts it, I'm fairly sure this information is incorrect. Apocalypse Please 03:53, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

-- 2012 --

I do not belive Q calculation is weighted properly; with 65 soil, 42 water, 29 pot, 29 table and 10 seed i got 19 resultant tree while it should be in range of 23-30 according to formula...unless farming skill caps each component at the time of putting it into pot. --Rook 08:53, 10 March 2012 (EST)

It makes sens to me that the 'planting' it related to the planting of the seed into the tree-planters pot (farming softcapping at this point seems logical). And that the planting of the sprouted-seed into the ground is, just like crops' not effected by the character stats of the character that actually puts them into the ground. --MvGulik 11:14, 10 March 2012 (EST)

Yes, but in my example i used farming lvl 1 alt to put soil and water into the pot but lvl 50 alt to put seed and plant the tree, that's why i assume that either Q formula is wrong or farming influence is applied more than just on the seed point. --11:23, 10 March 2012 (EST)

Aha. I would go with a potential additional softcapping point at the water or soil step first. (maybe even both). If you did get the right results when all steps where done with a high farming character (ergo: no possible softcapping), the basic formula should be ok. --MvGulik 12:53, 10 March 2012 (EST)

Some more data on this: Q65 soil, Q42 water, Q29 pot, Q29 table, Q19 seed, 80 farming at all steps-> Q28 tree, which points to basic(non-softcapped) formula beeing correct. --Rook 05:57, 16 March 2012 (EDT)

-- 2014 --

${\frac {_{q}Pot+_{q}Soil+_{q}Water+_{q}Table+_{q}Seed*4}{8}}$ (-2, +5)
This formula is not correct ... Q Seed must have a higher effect. --Jmazz01 23 August 2014

More Data: 2 Fir Cones planted simultaneously in alien terrain: 1st = Q44Pot, Q68Soil, Q54H2O, Q26Seed on Q83HT, Farming@155. The 2nd was from: Q41Pot, Q68Soilx2 + Q67Soilx2, Q54H2O, Q26Seed on Q83HT, Farming@155. Final Q of the 1st was 37 which is 5 less than the minimum it should have been, i.e. Q 42-49. The 2nd tree was Q41 or right in line with the minimum it should have been, i.e. Q 41-48 --User:Reyajh 12:18, 29 September 2014 (EDT)

Another Fir on alien: Q44Pot, Q68Soil, Q54H2O, Q41Seed on Q83HT, Farming@170. Resultant Q was 46 which is 3 less than what it should have been. --User:Reyajh 21:17, 8 October 2014 (EDT)

Willow on alien (Assuming grassland is alien): Q58Pot, Q67Soil, Q54H2O, Q22Seed on Q83HT, Farming@172. Resultant Q was 34 or 7 less than minimum it should have been. --User:Reyajh 01:07, 22 October 2014 (EDT)

Birch on native: Q41Pot, Q67Soil, Q54H2O, Q23Seed on Q83HT, Farming@170. Resultant Q was 37 or 3 less than the minimum it should have been. --User:Reyajh 01:07, 22 October 2014 (EDT)

-- 2015 --

Comparing different formula values:

Soil	Water	Pot	Table	Seed	(tot)	Fail
1	1	2	2	9	15	-12
6.67%	6.67%	13.33%	13.33%	60.00%
6	6	10	10	48	80	-4
7.50%	7.50%	12.50%	12.50%	60.00%
2	2	3	3	14	24	-3
8.33%	8.33%	12.50%	12.50%	58.33%
1	1	2	2	16	22	-7
4.55%	4.55%	9.09%	9.09%	72.73%
2	2	3	3	16	26	-2
7.69%	7.69%	11.54%	11.54%	61.54%

Using 34 collected (so far) data records (including older W6 data). Switching main page to best matching case so far.

${\frac {_{q}Soil*2+_{q}Water*2+_{q}Pot*3+_{q}Table*3+_{q}Seed*16}{26}}(-5,+2)$

Better use of available data suggest 15 was a better choice.

${\frac {_{q}Soil*2+_{q}Water*2+_{q}Pot*3+_{q}Table*3+_{q}Seed*15}{25}}(-5,+2)$

Soil	Water	Pot	Table	Seed	(tot)	Fail
2	2	3	3	15	25	-3
8.00%	8.00%	12.00%	12.00%	60.00%

Kinda like the percentages on this one to. ;) --.MvGulik. 15:54, 28 January 2015 (EST)

Respawn System

I would like to suggest more information be gathered on the various types of trees, i.e. how long before branches can be harvested again, how long until bark regrows, etc. User:1John5vs7 15:21, 13 November 2011 (?)

I'm finding that after all of the tree's bark is removed in the final (6th) stage, the rest of a tree's products will no longer regenerate. --User:Reyajh 17:19, 6 September 2014 (EDT)

I have now found this information to be inconsistent. Testing to see if it is just certain trees stripped down, but it is likely entirely wrong. --User:Reyajh 11:14, 29 September 2014 (EDT)

Therefore, on the main page, under the 'Tree Information' section, where it states: "..Bark, Branches and Seeds each regrow when trees enter a new phase of growth (up to the phase's quantity limit) as well as every 1-2 real time weeks." Since I've yet to find that happen once the bark is removed in stage 6 & instead no further regeneration occurs (Or at least within 2 months,) I'm suggesting that the information be removed or replaced with my more current findings. Could someone else verify? --User:Reyajh 17:49, 6 September 2014 (EDT)

I have not seen any hints of this behavior when I managed a little Fir tree-farm (where I fully stripped regenerated trees). Which kinda suggests its probably linked to a specific tree type, or something else. --.MvGulik. 16:08, 8 September 2014 (EDT)

You are correct. I have a Maple as well that fully regenerated after 10 real days. I'm now finding evidence that the Moon Phase may be affecting the respawn events. Is it possible that there is a set amount of time and then at the next certain moon phase to which that particular tree is inclined or affiliated with after that set amount of minimum time that the tree will then respawn on the next moon phase to which it is associated with? Sorry it's a lot of words. In the end it may be that ApocalypsePlease is correct in that there is just no consistent value. I'm now testing to confirm this. --User:Reyajh 11:14, 29 September 2014 (EDT)

Be careful when testing something that might have some random aspects in it. Randomness, by its nature, is not devoid of throwing its own occasional patterns. :) --.MvGulik. 15:18, 2 October 2014 (EDT)

Nice!!! Gotcha.., Notated :) --User:Reyajh 21:00, 8 October 2014 (EDT)

The regen on tree products is based off a random decay hit which must happen to the tree. There is no consistent value

--ApocalypsePlease 10:43, 13 November 2011 (EST)

Just some general respan data. I did see a water q respawn events within a minute of having drained it by one point. This suggest a fixed time event. It might also work in a similar way with tree's restocking.
The HnH world time at this instance was very close to 24:00h. The 24h time might be a coincides. But its a possible start point. --MvGulik 06:45, 19 March 2012 (EDT)

---

I've cut some branches of a tree and couple of hours later the tree grew all its branches back. It seems the respawn counter does not reset after the last branch cut. Please refer me to the respawn system wiki page if existent. Trepach 16:36, 18 March 2012 (EDT)

Treelevels

Trees growth stages

General tree reference image showing all trees in all growth stages. (missing yew tree)
(Intend to do something else with it. Just not sure what. --MvGulik 02:14, 8 May 2012 (EDT))

Other info

Trees when cut down fall 2 tiles to the right from the tree's center tile.
Tip: Be mindful of where you build structures such as a palisade or a log cabin to the right of trees or when you plant trees to the left of existing structures. It is recommended to cut the tree down first unless the tree is meant to never be cut down or (you) wouldn't mind having a few inaccessible logs through the existing structure if it was decided later that the tree should be cut down. The time it takes to reach the final stage of growth is very random taking from weeks to months irl. (I'll go look for the thread that says this.) --Deadguy60 18:10, 19 May 2012 (EDT)

Could Trepach expand on and/or clarify the priority of tile change info under the 'How to Acquire' section? --User:Reyajh 02:29, 22 October 2014 (EDT)

Tree Maturation Times

General note:
On the Main-page in the Tree Table there are a number of maturation-times that point to level 6 (full mature tree). These are kinda misleading, as the maturing-time from level 5 to level 6 contains a rather large random time-range. Currently unknown (to me) is if the random time for level-5 to level-6 maturation is bounded by a minimum and/or maximum. And what those might be. It makes sens there is some minimum to prevent tree's from jumping from level-5 to level-6 in a matter of minutes. (Not sure what to do with those Level 6 times yet. Moving them to discussion page or striking them out, are the options I'm considering.) --.MvGulik. 12:45, 21 January 2015 (EST)

None Native terrain: Take note of the fact that when a tree changes the tile its growing on to its native terrain, its growth will/should change to its native-terrain speed. --.MvGulik. 23:10, 24 January 2015 (EST)

---

Maturing data moved from main page: (temp)

Tree	Maturation time on native terrain	Maturation time on alien terrain
Apple Tree	?	?
Birch Tree	~28 real days to Full Maturity or phase 6.	?
Elm Tree	?	?
Fir Tree	1 real day per phase	~17.5 - 27 real days to phase 6.
Hazelnut Tree	?	~2.5 days per phase to phase 5.
Maple Tree	?	~43 real days to phase 6.
Mulberry Tree	?	3 real days per phase.
Oak Tree	10 real days to phase 5. ~16 to phase 6.	~2 weeks to phase 2.
Pine Tree	?	~1 real week per phase to phase 5.
Willow Tree	?	~29 real days to phase 6.
Yew Tree	?	?

---

Maple: On alien terrain: From 7-24-14 Planted @ roughly 2030 CST to 9-5-14 @ roughly 2400 when 1st noticed it had changed to full maturity. So within hours that's roughly 43 days to full maturity. --User:Reyajh 17:31, 6 September 2014 (EDT)

Note: The tree's 4 root tiles were 2 full blank tiles away from my fence & no other stunting objects were around it. I leave a 6x6 grid vacant (With the tree alone in the center) to accommodate the 4 root tiles.--User:Reyajh 17:59, 6 September 2014 (EDT)

Fir Cone: On alien terrain: On 9-1-14 @ ~2320 CST Planted 2 Fir Cones = Day 151 New Moon @ ~1600 ingame for both: 1st was from: Q44Pot, Q68Soil, Q54H2O, Q26Seed on Q83HT, Farming@155. The 2nd was from: Q41Pot, Q68Soilx2 + Q67Soilx2, Q54H2O, Q26Seed on Q83HT, Farming@155.

Harvested 1 Branch only from the 1st Fir on 9-15-14 @ Stage 5 growth. It was Q 37 but should have been Q42-Q49. The tree reached stage 6 on 9-19-14 between 0500 & 1200 CST. Ingame time was day 204 @ 0740 & the Moon was Last Quarter. Final Q 37. ~17.5 days to full maturity.

On the 2nd tree I harvested 5 Branches & 2 Cones on 9-15-14 at Stage 5 & nearly the same date & time of harvesting as the 1st tree. This tree was at Q 41 which is at the low end of where it should have been. It didn't reach full maturity until 9-28-14 Ingame day 232 @ 1400 Moon Last Quarter as well... ~27 days to full maturity.

Did harvesting stunt the maturation time? & is the Moon phase associated as well? --User:Reyajh 11:54, 29 September 2014 (EDT)

Moon phases have never played a role with tree planting or tree growth. So they can be ignored. --.MvGulik. 22:53, 24 January 2015 (EST)

On alien terrain: 9-16-14 @ 2207 to 10-8-14 @ 1800ish 1st noticed. Nearly 22 days to full maturity. Right in the middle, or avg maturation time of the 3 trees. (Note: This tree was not harvested on at all until fully mature. Moon's Phase was Waning Gibbous) --User:Reyajh 21:09, 8 October 2014 (EDT)

Oak: On Native Terrain: 9-21-14 to 10-8-14. 16, Maybe 15 days to full maturity. Was 10 days on 10-2-14 to Stage 5 when 1st harvested anything, 1 Acorn. So it was ~2 days a stage to stage 5. Again, did harvesting stunt the final stage's maturation time? --User:Reyajh 21:30, 8 October 2014 (EDT)

The act of harvesting alone should have no effect on the tree growth or final maturation time. (Ignoring the fact that, while harvesting a growing tree, the tree might be stunted by the character doing the harvesting. But, base on other/old info, a tree needs more than one failed-growth attempt to become truly stunted.) --.MvGulik. 22:53, 24 January 2015 (EST)

Birch & Native (preliminary):

General: ~16 hour per level (1..5)

Minimal: ~12 hour per level (1..5)

L5..L6: seems to include a minimal time.

Based on indirect visual tracking on a 8x8 tree set.

--.MvGulik. 22:27, 24 January 2015 (EST)