User talk:MvGulik

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MvGulik talk/discussion page. Use [+] to start a new talk section/topic. Last cleared: 07:09, 9 November 2017 (EST)


Hello MvGulik,

I'm glad to see one of the old Admins has come back to see how the wiki has help up. about a year ago I began working on the wiki pretty intensely and Borka approached me with the offer to be a new wiki admin. I felt that I could help the wiki, so I accepted the offer and freed Borka from his prior obligations.

Since then i've tried to clean up the wiki, which I think i've done a pretty decent job of. In cleaning the wiki i've deleted some 400 odd pages that were out of use, out of place, or out of date. one of the biggest changes I made was separating the hafen infobox from the legacy infobox, entirely divorcing the two of each other.

Feel free to bring back any pages I might have deleted if you feel they have a purpose, And if you have any questions over what changes I might have made or anything, feel free to message me here or on the HnH forums.

Once again, thanks for coming back, even just for a while.

--Ricky (talk) 10:52, 11 November 2017 (EST)

Hi Ricky.
Thanks for the history update. Always useful to get a better view on things. :-)
I'm currently unsure how long I might stick around. But as I'm currently lacking any other main online-activity, it might be for a while. My main interest at the moment is tinkering with Mediawiki stuff again, while still having a soft spot for RoB-wiki.
"deleted some 400 odd pages":
Ouch ... that seem a bit much, things did not seem that bad when I left. ;-)
Did spotted one that, although generally not really used by general users, still has it place. But that's minor stuff for later.
... First things first. Getting a proper overview again of RoB-wiki, and where there might be room for some improvements.
"hafen infobox versus legacy infobox":
Yea, spotted that one. Hafen and Legacy seem not yet completely separated, Template wise. Which seem also a bit tricky at the moment. But its on my "Interesting/Look-into stuff" list.
(the main problem at the moment seem to be the lack of hafen v Legacy separation for images)
Roger. I don't have any pressing questions yet (I'm still in RoB-wiki exploration mode), but when I do I will ask them. ... Will do so on RoB-wiki.
In relation to the H&H forum. I don't plan on using it, other than for reading up on RoB-wiki related stuff/posts.
And ... As I'm also not playing the game. I'm going to be completely useless when it comes to Game related edits on RoB (either making or checking them).
Other than that, I try to help out where I can.
--.MvGulik. 12:58, 11 November 2017 (EST)

Any help is always appreciated, especially on the back end. I have a working knowledge of how the RoB wiki and its templates work, but in general i have very little knowledge of MediaWiki in general. A user with more experience in this area would be very helpful around the wiki.

As for the reason why such a massive amount of pages were purged, many of them were redirects. Since i've come to manage the wiki, i've found them to cause more trouble than their worth, often pointing people to legacy items instead of hafen. other pages included defunct templates, categories, talk pages, and article stubs which i've since merged into more coherent pages. I might have been somewhat overzealous in my work, but i feel its justified.

As for the Legacy/hafen, you're right. there are still a few interactions that i havent had the initiative to fix. you've already noticed one. the image interaction come from the infobox:metaobj. haven items are supposed to be named file:hafen-pagename.png, but i havent exercised this at all. there are some other strange cases of legacy/hafen interaction, such as the category:The Symbel, which populates both legacy and hafen pages. this is cause by the template:Menu usage scan, which auto populates categories for any page that uses the template:menu usage scan, or template:GM. Ideally, all hafen items should be auto categorized in this fashion, but i dont have the necessary expertise to fix this.

another tasks on the wiki which i have wanted to undertake, but lack the required skill is creating relationships between the infobox:Terrain, Infobox:Tree, and infobox:metaobj. ideally items and objects should have terrain information entered into them, and the infobox:terrain would auto populate. This would certainly be a useful feature, but not necessary.

I also don't play anymore, so I mostly focus on adding new pages when updates are released and general maintenance. we really do need someone to invest some time into the back end. After cleaning and fixing for a year, i've lost the initiative to take on any more large wiki projects.

Again, thanks for coming back. I wish you the best in your wiki shenanigans.

--Ricky (talk) 21:40, 11 November 2017 (EST)

Thanks for the additional info.
Will do some additional thinking on the raised issues. And probably open up some general issues talk-page for them before committing to any major changes.
One main target on my wish-list is getting some local python code up to that would allow for some automation of otherwise tedious wiki-wide editing (*for edits that can't be done with the special:Replace text feature that is*). Although its a bit iffy at the moment if I can pull that off, still just exploring ... while taking my time for that.
PS: My first massive-purged comment-line was more joke than serous comment. I kinda figured all those moved-talk redirects had something to do with it. :)
--.MvGulik. 02:42, 12 November 2017 (EST)

infobox metaobj category shenanigans

Hey Mvg,

do you know of a function or code that i can drop into the template:infobox metaobj and its doc page to remove it from the category listings? the doc has examples of all the different metaobj boxes we have, and subsequently some categories are auto listed because of that. I haven't been able to find anything, but then again, i havent looked all that hard.


--Ricky (talk) 23:34, 1 December 2017 (EST)

Lets see ... For stopping metaobj from showing up in game related categories, enclosing the code part in <includeonly>...</includeonly> tags would normally do the trick. But that probably would still leave the metaobj example cases to deal with. Just removing them seem not such a good idea. The next best thing that comes to my mind would be to have some Template-ns check, or probably better some additional input parm to check (to be used by the metaobj examples called from the Doc page (Example=1 or SkipCategory=1) that would be used to block game related Category additions ... but the current metaobj code seems not really set up to do that last part in a nice way.
PS: If you like to play around with this I suggest using Template:Temp for that by dumping the current metaobj code in there, and duplicating the metaobj/doc to Template:Temp/doc. To see the result you can preview any game page while calling that Temp template instead of metaobj, or you could use/create an additional test/sandbox page to see the results of your edits.
--.MvGulik. 03:53, 2 December 2017 (EST)

Specific property questions

Hey, I noticed you've been working on the specific properties. I have an unresolved issue/question from a case I ran into some months back:

In certain cases an object can belong to more than one specific group. The best example of this are finebones, such as a wishbone. A wishbone is a specific type of finebone, but it's also a specific type of bone material.

The issue I have is that I cannot list more than one specific type and them both appear in the infobos. I've tried (not that hard mind you) to Work around this problem, but haven't found a nice solution.

Maybe you have some helpful input on the situation.

--Ricky (talk) 02:48, 16 February 2018 (EST)

Aha. I have been wondering if there was a real need for more than one 'Specific' property value input. The Sm-sep-aa template was created with multiple values property input in mind. But as I did not seen/spotted a direct need for that, I did not look into how to handle those cases output wise.
There is on problem with properties (versus category entries) here that might make this impractical. There seems to be no way to test if a property has a particular value (unlike with category entries).
- (the more I learn about SMW's behaviors, the more I start to dislike it.)
- (battling a little flue infection, sniff, sniff. (ie:limiting overall activity))
--.MvGulik. 23:53, 16 February 2018 (EST)

(main) Wanted Pages linking to legacy items

Hey MvG,

So while looking through that convient list of wanted pages that you generated, I've noticed some links on the (main) wanted pages are being linked to by legacy pages.

for instance the Dawn Chain (no longer an item in Hafen) links to Legacy: Dawn Chain. can be seen here: I assume this is because of the header at the top. any ideas how to remedy this? it's somewhat difficult to sort through which pages we really need (or need to edit) when a non trivial amount of them link to legacy pages with no actual links to correct or remove.


--Ricky (talk) 19:37, 2 May 2018 (EDT)

O dear. Seems the same as in the wort case, which I have not figured out yet.
The Outdated page header on legacy pages has its link-up-to-main part disabled. ... got to run (DayJob), later.
--.MvGulik. 02:53, 3 May 2018 (EDT)

Yep, your right. I forgot about the #ifexist that's in the OutdatedPage' template.
That #ifexist feature is kinda useful, ... but that linkshere behaviour turns out to be a bit of a headage.
... Looking into ignoring those cases in de 'wantedpages tables' page ... for now.
--.MvGulik. 12:30, 3 May 2018 (EDT)

Updated "wantedpages_tables" process + page. --.MvGulik. 04:36, 4 May 2018 (EDT)

Running some Replace-Text jobs that should get rid of the majority of leftover 'Legacy:'-to-'Main:' links. (eta: hours)
--.MvGulik. 12:42, 4 May 2018 (EDT)

Done. Just about all 'linkshere', at Main-namespace pages, that point into Legacy-space should be #ifexist related, and as such can be generally ignored.
--.MvGulik. 15:44, 4 May 2018 (EDT)

ROB wiki tool/server updates

hey MvG,

noticed some time back some mentionings of SMW updates we could use. thought i'd share some info that might help out.

Granger on the HnH forum once mentioned that he would be willing to take ownership of the ROB wiki, relieving spiff of his obligation to the site.

I never passed this information onto spiff however, mostly because I felt he was content hosting the site, but perhaps not maintaining it, which was fine for the scope of my activity on the site.

it seems now that having someone (granger) who has both the ability and the desire to host and manage the wiki would be beneficial.

if you want to pursue this avenue further, Granger is very active on the HNH forums and I believe you have spiff's email.

perhaps you could arrange something with the two of them? --Ricky (talk) 18:54, 16 May 2018 (EDT)

Thanks. Its definitely something to take in consideration. One thing in favour of Spiff is that he has been very consistent in the hosting of RoB (almost 10 years now).
--.MvGulik. 01:35, 17 May 2018 (EDT)


Hey MvG,

I read (somewhere) you were looking into the infobox metaobj and perhaps thinking about reworking/cleaning it up. I was wondering if you could offer some insight into how one could connect separate infboxes (this would be necessary if you're really wanting to break the infobox metaobj down into several templates). currently the infobox metaobj uses [[requires::... to display objects on other pages. What I would like to do is create a similiar (or use the same) property to connect the infobox metaobj and infobox terrain (and eventually the infobox tree).

I would like to be able to list in a specific item's infobox metaobj where that certain plant, tree, animal, etc. can be found and have the corresponding infobox terrains populate that data. for example, if a laurel tree can be found on X,Y,Z terrain, you could have a [[terrain::property which when placed in the infobox metaobj would display data in the infobox terrain.


--Ricky (talk) 23:17, 7 July 2018 (EDT)

Adding "Terrain::" to the entries in the location parameter (infobox tree) should give one possible data-pathway to pull the tree's for a given terrain.
ie: {{infobox tree :|location = [[Terrain::Timberland]], [[Terrain::Redplain]]
--.MvGulik. 07:34, 8 July 2018 (EDT)

Bot Idea

Hello, as you may notice Not_a_cat found and used this Template I think it's a great addition and we should do that for a lot of items. Spitroast meat, roast meat\fish and so on(a lot of categories have just a copy paste info - that should be updated(if it's changed) with one edit, instead of do it on every page), but its pretty annoying to add shared data mannualy on each related page(espesially with this lags), maybe you can make some simple bot i could use for it?
--Kitsuneg (talk) 11 September 2018 (EDT)

SharedData template: Yea, I saw it ... Overall it seems ok, although it also raised some initial concerns at my end (concerns which I have not worked out yet for myself).
Info: Bot, in general, is when wiki-page-updates are done by some code/program/script. Could be some local-to-user(any user btw) code like in my case (Or for example PHP for local to wiki code, which however needs Wiki-Bureaucrat rights for there implementation).
If you mean some template that would update displayed common-data on multiple pages. That could be done by setting/using a general default to a particular object-type setting in the related template. That default would be used if that setting is left blank in the template call. Changing that default setting in the template itself would than show the new default(s) on all related pages.
In addition, if needed/requested, I can apply wiki-wide edits ... as long as its a straightforward text change (same text on all target pages), or if it can capture all variations with a Regular Exspression (Wikipedia-RegExp).
--.MvGulik. 12:39, 11 September 2018 (EDT)

Specific Update

Hello, another idea - there some pages(and related pages) that should be updated with actual specific template([1] - like it, and the old specific doesn't show up a specific type and link, only related recipes.)
Maybe there some other pages with this problem that i forgot.

P.S. I hope i'm not bothering you with this tasks - just thought that it might be easy bottable insted of manual work..
--Kitsuneg (talk) 29 November 2018 (EDT)

I'm having some trouble interpreting what's on your mind.

I think I do get the first part:
Kitsuneg>"Can the general-object pages, that are not yet using the Specific-property-text template, be automatically updated to add the Specific-property-text template call"
Taking a quick look at it ... :
- For RoB's Replace function it seems not directly possible. The initial/main problem here is that I see no good way to pre-select the target pages. (and the Regexp part would probably also be a bit problematic/tricky)
- For using some local code ... it would/should be no problem at all ... but the potentially code for this is currently littered all over the place. :/
(I will see if I can pull something together in a useable form to handle replacements like this. ... (feel free to not wait for that))

The following part I did not understand (yet*).
Kitsuneg>"the old specific doesn't show up a specific type and link, only related recipes."
*) might happen some time later, although I think I need some more information to better understand what's on your mind here.

PS: For active talks (between multiple users) on Talk-page its kinda customary to keep same post-text on the same (indentation) level (signature included I'm afraid).
--.MvGulik. 13:34, 29 November 2018 (EST)

Well i mean: that pages use for example Category:Prepared Animal Hides, Specific::Prepared Animal Hide| and not |specific = Prepared Animal Hide
Thats why there is no link on Prepared Animal Hide in info and only list recipes.
the difference between this

and i wanted to ask to add |specific = Prepared Animal Hide everywhere it need.

Sorry, for me pretty hard to explain that kind of things in english (it's not easy on native language aswell =)
--Kitsuneg (talk) 29 November 2018 (EDT)

Aha. Got it.
Taking a look ... Nope, I see no way to make that change with a Regexp (With RoB's Global Replace feature).
The main problem in this case is the positioning and adding of the new text.
RoB's Regexp has only the basic RE features, and its missing the more advanced RE features that 'potentially' would allow for this.
(A good basic rule for RE usage is that its best used for changes (find 'and' replace part) that span a single line/paragraph. When multiple lines of variable text need to be spanned it usually not a Regexp job)

Finding those cases that are still using [[Specific::<TYPETEXT>| ]] is not a problem (116 cases btw).
As such I could dump that data somewhere so the changes could be done manual. (If I can't pull the needed code together in a few days)

PS: No need to be sorry, I know English is not your native language.
... It just adds a bit more asking, when not sure, to make it work. (is statement of fact, not statement of blame)
--.MvGulik. 03:22, 30 November 2018 (EST)

Aha now i understand how it's works! Thanks, np i'll do that manualy then. --Kitsuneg (talk) 30 November 2018 (EDT)

Some easy one's I could do. (~26)
I might be able to extend that a bit ... (84 left)
--.MvGulik. 03:37, 30 November 2018 (EST)

Heh many thanks) i will finish whats left little bit later
--Kitsuneg (talk) 30 November 2018 (EDT)

... Forgot I can't also/directly do the additional removing of the related Specific-category entries.
So I'm off focusing on that local code part.
--.MvGulik. 04:19, 30 November 2018 (EST)

Basic initial code ... done. Tested on [[Specific::<TYPETEXT>| ]] leftovers.
--.MvGulik. 14:18, 1 December 2018 (EST)

File Max Size

Hi, can you set max size of upload files to 3 mb? at least for a day.
Shoko want to upload a list of emotes gif's, and some of them bigger then 2 mb. (from 2.5 to 3)
As i googled i have no rights to do so.
--Kitsuneg (talk) 12:25, 30 January 2019 (EST)

Only a Wiki-bureaucrat can do that (as far as I know).
I'm only having Wiki-Admin rights (which is more similar to Forum-Moderator in nature then Forum-Admin).
Suggest looking for a good animated-gif compression tool to try to make it as small as possible.
--.MvGulik. 03:11, 31 January 2019 (EST)

Sad - i see, well Shoko already compress it to match the wiki, but damn they were so better with more fps =(

P.S. As you are here now, can you look on forum at Wiki thread - so MagicMan not need to copypaste his question here ^_^

--Kitsuneg (talk) 03:25, 31 January 2019 (EST)

FEP Table colors

Hey, The Category Talk:Baked Goods page has a manually made table from ~2012 (you might be familiar with it!). Was wondering if its possible to add those table colors to ask-generated tables, such as the one found on the Category:Baked goods page.

Also, it might not be a bad idea to soft delete that talk page, or movie it to a legacy page of the same name.

--Ricky (talk) 02:37, 10 February 2019 (EST)

Yep, Talk page is Legacy only stuff. Page Moved/Renamed.
Colors in #ask table: Definitely not possible directly with a bare #ask query. But maybe that it is possible by linking up an ask-data processing template, but I'm not sure about that (yet).
--.MvGulik. 12:23, 10 February 2019 (EST)
After a bit of reading, this >"Definitely not possible directly with a bare #ask query." is not correct. As you can enclose the alt-header-name by html tags (ie: span). (seen example used a 'class' attribute, assuming the 'style' attribute should work too)
In-table data-cell colouring (if possible) will need to be done by an additional data-processing template. No way around that.
--.MvGulik. 14:05, 10 February 2019 (EST)

gathering search data

Hey MvG, is there any way to gather data about what is being searched by users? would be great if we could. was wanting to look through and see what gets hit a lot, or what common key words get searched that don't exist and might need redirects to real pages. perhaps a tall order? I didn't see anything in the special pages page, but i didnt look very hard

--Ricky (talk) 16:11, 13 February 2019 (EST)

No. That feature was dropped from the MW-core in an older MW-version. --.MvGulik. 20:02, 13 February 2019 (EST)
O wait, that was the page-hits feature. For user searches statistics one would (also) need to use/install some additional MW-extension (no such extension used at RoB). --.MvGulik. 20:23, 13 February 2019 (EST)