User talk:Kitsuneg

Category redirecting.

Kitsuneg. After seeing it I gave it some thought, but I don't think its such a good idea or practice to use redirects in category pages that contain active category data. (related pages: [1][2][3]) --.MvGulik. 05:16, 2 February 2018 (EST)

Well im not sure how to do better - i just love the: "Specific Type of" its pretty important information. I think about use just an #ask like here http://ringofbrodgar.com/wiki/Any_Mushroom But category of that items itself pretty useless - just contain names, so why not redirect to page , where u see that items and recipes where them used. Anyway if there some issues or you have ideas just #ask option is good enough.

--.Kitsuneg . 2 February 2018 (EST)

The usefulness of the category page itself based on its category entries is kinda subjective, potentially leading to per case discussion. As such I only look at 'if a category has data or not'. If what you need can be stored as properties the category page can be kept empty, in which case I see no problem turning it into a redirect. Alternatively, if its possible to directly linkup to the final target page, instead of first linking up to the/a category page, no additional redirect would be needed. Last, but most simple resolution (for the moment) would be using a prominent link on the category page to link the final target page. --.MvGulik. 09:47, 2 February 2018 (EST)

Ps: Perhaps the Property:Object_type could be of some potential use. --.MvGulik. 10:07, 2 February 2018 (EST) for later, maybe.

Think I debugged the problems (wiki-code and user-communication).
The Category link used on the real-game-object pages only serves one purpose (for which there seems to be no known alternative), showing/generating a category link at the bottom of the page in question.
New resolution that makes sense to me:
- Switching related ask queries from category to 'Specific' property (as the 'Specific' property is to be considered the master data source (better self-documenting wiki-code)).
- Additional documentation to the related (on the side/by-product, but not really intended to be actively used) catalogs.
Other stuff that comes to mind:
- (Log/catalog these kind of categories)
- (move 'Specific' def into template code)
-- (move category def into template code)
--.MvGulik. 23:16, 3 February 2018 (EST)

So, hm, i'll wait about other stuff - im not good in code, and cant help with it. When u finish that ideas - make Salad Greens as it must be - and i'll use it as an example to update related pages. Or i just misunderstand something, ist pretty complicated to me.

--.Kitsuneg., 4 February 2018 (EST)

Those "(Other stuff that comes to mind)" parts are just parts I intent to do myself (all in good time). And there not immediately needed, so there is no need to wait for them. The changes I made to the 'Salad Greens' pages are the current examples (the only true change currently is the added/changes page texts, and the additional administration category). Using the "{{Specific-property-text‎‎}}" part is kinda optional, as its new and somewhat of a test. --.MvGulik. 07:45, 4 February 2018 (EST)

Some questions ...

I spotted you removed the "baseclass_testcase" part from two pages. (here and here)

As there was no information given on the edit-summary field that clarified the removal I'll have to ask you directly.

Why did you remove those "baseclass_testcase" parts. ?

I did try to include some information about them by adding those "Its currently maintained on some pages for potential future testing."

Are those "baseclass_testcase" part giving some problems on those or other pages ?

Also.

Why the complete reversal of the wikitable edits I made in the Category:Crops page ?

The edits I made where to make the table a bit less bloated code wise, and to make the text in "all cells" vertical-aline the same way. (related diff compare)

Overall I think the change was for the better, including table edibility. Do you disagree on that ?

--.MvGulik. 16:11, 18 March 2018 (EDT)

1. Just misunderstanding, as i thought you completed specific template and this testcase was for it, no?

I used specific on Leek - and thought testcase was not needed anymore.

Sorry for that

2. Actually i just missed that this table has some edits, because it has same mistakes as on Farming page, so i just fix info and copypaste.

Im really inattentive today.

I'll fix that later - just want to make same table on this two pages.

--.KitsuneG. 16:54, 18 March 2018 (EDT)

Aha.

1. Nope, I'm not really done yet with the baseclass tests. Its kinda put on hold for the moment, and is intended to workout and check potential additional "Specific" stuff. (will restore when needed again)

2. I see. I was not aware there was a same/similar table at the Farming page.

All clear.

--.MvGulik. 03:52, 19 March 2018 (EDT)

RE: Editing

You mentioned that I should not force anyone to test things; I never implied that people should. What I said was that instead of blocking me and accusing me of lying/trolling, he could come up with something, anything really, to justify doing so. He could not, and admitted to not caring to do so either. He has no place here, imho. As for the editing it myself, I am new to this and do not know how to edit that right-side section of the page, so I went to the talk page instead so someone else could do the editing sometime down the road; this is not a demand, it is a request. If no one changes it to reflect my work, then the wiki will fail to be accurate and everyone will be unhappy with it. --user:LordMark(7 October 2018‎)

Skill Tree image

File:Skill_Tree.png
Darn. That's a really nice one. :-)
--.MvGulik. 14:55, 17 December 2018 (EST)

Hehe =) thanks.

--.KitsuneG. 18 December 2018 (EDT)

Great job on those crop pictures

They look fantastic. Tried doing this once myself when i was still active and had a farm, but never had the patience.

Keep up the good work my man.

--Ricky (talk) 05:46, 15 January 2019 (EST)

Hehe Thank you. Well me too never had patience to collect this, actually Enjoyment from the forum gathered it for me - i'll give him thanks =)

--Kitsuneg (talk) 15 January 2019 (EST)

StudieTime

>"indeed it's 27 minutes but until Mv testing, do not change timers(they are all messed up with tests."
1) Why undo a correction that is not wrong ?
I have added an additional time display to StudyTime that show the actual time in (Days, Hours, Minutes) to counteract any potential H.MM vs H.dd confusion. This part seems to work fine at my end (Firefox)
2) What do you see as problems(messed up) why timers should not be updated ?
3) What should be done to correct/fix those problems in your view ?
--.MvGulik. 08:48, 19 May 2019 (EDT)

1) I didnt notice you already changed all timers..
2) Now we need to recalculate all curio timers to see correct time in ( ) what the actual point in 0.47 instead of right RL timer in first place? This change is hard to edit, and to understand. you see 1.27 and this is 1 hour 27 minutes in any client in-game(except vanilla - but noone use it - and even in vanilla there are different timers), comes to wiki and need to calculate to put correct time. http://prntscr.com/nqj1bx in-game and http://prntscr.com/nqj1km in wiki..
3) I think we not need that at all. It's just complicates the help in filling wiki.

--Kitsuneg (talk) 09:24, 19 May 2019 (EDT)

1) Any changes to some global used templated will effect all pages that use it. The change is however not instantly to all pages, but takes some time. To manually force a page to show the newest version (when in doubt if its already updated or not) hit the [Refresh] button.

>"Now we need to recalculate all curio timers to see correct time in ( )"

That was something that was needed anyway in my view (I made a comment about that some time ago. Found it: StudieTime decimals). The pup-up-note on the StudieTime entry in the infobox has been up for some time now, ... and I don't recall that you or others complained (or asked) about this before.

I could add a new page-notification tag for this, and add it to related pages. Without it its going to be really tricky to know which StudieTime's are checked or not yet checked.

>"what the actual point in 0.47 instead of right RL timer in first place?"

I'm not sure if you mean StudieTime's input or output here.

Input:

- Notation ambiguity for one, "HH.MM" v "HH.ddd". When it comes to correct time notation on would/should use "HH:MM" instead of "HH.MM".

- Second: Doing any arithmetic with "HH.MM" type values is a nightmare, if even possible. (all curiosity arithmetic probably assume a HH.ddd type value, not checked yet)

- Using "HH:MM" as input will need to be a string. Which seems fine to me. but it can't be directly used in any curiosity arithmetic.

Output:

- For the output I think its good the have the actual input value displayed (for now at least), as verification on the used input value.

- The "(d H M)" part is currently last, but that don't need to be. For all I care it could be first, and the actual input value last (in small print if deemed useful)

--.MvGulik. 14:04, 19 May 2019 (EDT)

I still not understand: it was worked fine(leave explanations) and now me or a new man should use calculator to math what he should put in studietime. why only mm in decimals.. ah whatever.

I don't want to work with that - that game hard enough without this.

It's rly make me loose spirit and i can't think straight right now.

P.S. I missed that property talk - can't be everywhere. --Kitsuneg (talk) 15:07, 19 May 2019 (EDT)

Sorry to hear that. I try my best to explain things to you, but I have a hard time figuring out what it actual is your not getting.

Anyway. The StudieTime value should be (and always should have been) of type "HH.Minuts-in-percentage-of-an-hour" to give correct values for other calculated curiosity/LP data (basic Math(Arithmetic)).

Going to overrule the related Undo because of that.

I will look into potential input alternatives, but not right now.

--.MvGulik. 21:33, 19 May 2019 (EDT)

Hunger

Hello. I get hunger level "full", with "Food efficacy: 90%", and "Approx time to lose 1% hunger" is "10 minutes", not "3 minutes" as you wrote/edit.

Will look at that. --Kitsuneg (talk) 01:45, 22 August 2019 (EDT)

Patreon

After a long trip and deliberation with my friends - i finally found what to say. I want to monetize my work for wiki via patreon. But i need Yours ( Ricky and MvGulik) approval, or maybe you want to join.. and ofc i want to compensate Spiff some money if he wants too.

Plan:

1. Get some money to keep reasons to doing that work ( even few $ is ok).

2. Maybe add some goals where i again start to research something(formulas and rumors) instead of just add new things as now.

Reasons:

1. I got threaten by some players, even hunted sometimes.

2. Playerbase start to be really annoying to me this year, thinking that i MUST doing that work.

3. Devs.. they're always not really interested in or work and community, but i was dissapointed in them more than expected, but i still like the game.

Summary, if you will be against i will still work sometimes - wiki in first place needed for me too. If you decide to join - i wouldn't mind to share income in equal parts.

--Kitsuneg (talk) 01:46, 22 August 2019 (EDT)

No

RoB Wiki is an unpaid player project. Everyone who participates is aware of.

Besides the IP is jorbs, loftar and kakas ... they'd have to have the last word anyways if someone wants to capitalize it ...

But:

if you're setting up your private Patreon nobody can hinder you to do so. And as you are doing other helpfull stuff (cookbook) prolly nobody even would mind if you announce it at HnH forums - if you write in a sidesentence that patreon donations also would help you doing RoB Wiki edits even i'd be ok with it. Then you can link that forums post to your user page here ...

That way it wouldn't be a corporate advertisement ... and i wouldn'l like to see any wordmarks at RoB Wiki besides the one ...

--Borka (talk) 03:57, 22 August 2019 (EDT)

Fair point - and yes i never planned to put any advertising here. And about jorbtar - they might decide to block me on forums if i release that idea - will see, in my opinion when the project was monetized they should be more loyal to people who help.

Took your words into account, thanks.

--Kitsuneg (talk) 04:23, 22 August 2019 (EDT)

I'm sharing Borka's points of view on the monetizing subject.

But I like to add some stuf on motivation.

I think that when someone's motivation for a particular activity is failing him/her, money is generally a poor substitute as motivational replacement. Potentially resulting in an additional future demotivating experience.

A better way I think is to dig into one's personal reasons for doing something, and re-evaluate them. Any reason that hinges on pleasing others or that involves particular expectation from others is a potential motivational booby-trap. (There fine as additional bonus, but not as driving reasons/force)

In relation to expecting special information/answers that goes beyond general game-play from H&H devs. Don't, for one because they don't have to. Remember RoB is a none official H&H wiki (which will probably also never change).

For what is worth, I think you have been a great RoB contributor, and I rather see you stay than go. But your enjoyment in doing so is important (in more ways than one).

--.MvGulik. 13:24, 22 August 2019 (EDT)

Well - in third thought - you're right , money is bad substitute for motivation. The best option for me is when our Devs really start to answer me(or my people), currently they ignore or refuse help at all, that drives me crazy more and more. Especially when they answer random people or fixing bugs that i reported(or questioned) months ago. But it's impposible.

Alright i will work as fas as i need this, this experience - taught me a lot about mediawiki and this is worth. ^_^

--Kitsuneg (talk) 07:35, 23 August 2019 (EDT)

As Borka and MvGulik have said, officially monetizing the RoB wiki is a bad idea. I wish there was a good solution to keeping the players happy with the wiki, but sadly the only answer is player contribution.

It upsets me a lot that players are threatening you (in-game) as well as demanding work from you, but take a moment to imagine the players who "paid" demanding work (What do I even pay you for?)

The only solution i can offer is advocate for the wiki and user contribution everywhere and without shame. certainly you must have seen my requests for player support while i was still very active on the wiki.

And It's fine to take a break. I will admit that once you started actively and aggressively updating and helping maintain the wiki that I fell back in to a 'maintenance mode' of sorts (which is why Im not so active now)

lastly, the most important part of maintaining the wiki is keeping up-to-date with adding new content. It doesnt have to be complete data, but creating the page, infobox, and item icon is the most important part.

As far as having your own patreon/paypal: As long as you're not "selling" jorb/loftars IP or using it to make money, they won't mind. Romovs (Amber client's creator) has a small link to his paypal at the bottom of his client thread.

and unfortunately, JLo will probably not systemically help us. One of the most important aspects of this game (to them, to many players) is the discovery aspect, so expecting them to dump large amounts of data to us would be foolish.

they however, are not cruel. asking in pm for verification of certain formulas will most likely get a response. yes/no answers will probably get a response. asking for large data dumps such as the Per*Exp of all foragables would probably be ignored.

--Ricky (talk) 20:00, 23 August 2019 (EDT)