Talk:Gemstones

Gem v Rock

do we have any data on what gems are likely to pop up in which stones? I have found a number of Rubies inside of Hornblende.--(Minion0ne28 January 2018‎)

from what I recall gems appear to have their own node formation that is separate from the type of rock. --(Zentaps 28 January 2018)

Gemstones Gild Table

@MvGulik i have an idea, can you create another gild templates unique for gemstones, so we can rip them off current gilding table and create another gilding table only for gems.

A lot of people asking for this since current gilding table was created.
--.Kitsuneg . 14 January 2019(EST)

I take it the word "template" is used in a general sense (instead of really meaning a new infobox_template file), and your looking for how to create a generated table that only displays gild data for gemstones. Which ... is actual kinda easy.

If you take the #ask-table code from the Gilding page (additional outer table code not included):

{{#ask: [[Category:Gilding Objects]]| link=all | limit=500 | mainlabel=Name | order=asc |
| ?gildpct    = Gild Chance
| ?gild1    = Gild 1
| ?gild2    = Gild 2
| ?gild3    = Gild 3
| ?gild4    = Gild 4
| ?gildatt  = Gild <br> Attributes
}}

And you change the "Category:Gilding Objects" part to "Category:Gemstones".

You get this #ask-table:

Name	Gild Chance	Gild 1	Gild 2	Gild 3	Gild 4	Gild Attributes
Amber	60%-85%	Constitution	Agility	Carpentry	Survival	Intelligence Unarmed Combat
Amethyst	50%-80%	Constitution	Charisma	Sewing	Melee Combat	Exploration
Diamond	60%-95%	Strength	Agility	Marksmanship	Melee Combat	Intelligence Charisma Sewing
Dust Jewel	60%-85%	Perception	Survival	Exploration	Masonry	Exploration
Emerald	60%-85%	Charisma	Strength	Farming	Lore	Charisma Farming
Jade	70%-90%	Psyche	Will	Lore		Psyche Masonry Sewing
Moonstone	50%-90%	Psyche	Constitution	Marksmanship	Smithing	Lore
Onyx	60%-80%	Will	Intelligence	Stealth	Carpentry	Stealth
Opal	60%-80%	Dexterity	Smithing	Survival	Masonry	Smithing Charisma
Oyster Pearl	20%-60%	Learning Ability +10	Melee Combat +5			Strength
Red Coral	60%-85%	Dexterity	Charisma	Stealth	Lore	Dexterity
River Pearl	20%-60%	Learning Ability +10	Unarmed Combat +5			Strength
Ruby	60%-85%	Strength	Dexterity	Survival	Charisma	Strength Survival
Sapphire	60%-85%	Agility	Psyche	Exploration	Cooking	Agility Unarmed Combat
Star Shard
Sugar Diamond	60%-85%	Charisma	Agility	Masonry	Lore	Intelligence Unarmed Combat
Topaz	60%-85%	Perception	Carpentry	Charisma	Farming	Perception Cooking
Turquoise	60%-85%	Intelligence	Agility	Exploration	Charisma	Intelligence Unarmed Combat

Is that what you where looking for ?

--.MvGulik. 13:58, 14 January 2019 (EST)

Hm almost, is there an option to exclude Gemstones from Gilding Objects table also? to make 2 different table on Gilding page. And Gems has more than usual | ?gild4 = Gild 4, would it work if i just keep addiding them further numbers?
--.Kitsuneg . 14 January 2019(EST)

I kinda figured that would be the next question.

One problem with #ask queries it that they don't support a logical NOT constuct. So asking directly for "Gilding Objects" minus(ie:NOT) "Gemstones" is not possible.

I will check if a OR or AND case is available with the current category setup. If not, I will see about changing that.

... Not sure if I get that done today, otherwise soonish.

No point in waiting to add that new table. I will take care of the other one when I'm done.

--.MvGulik. 14:34, 14 January 2019 (EST)

some information that might help you understand what we need, or what should be done: gemstones can only be gilded onto rings (equivalent to the 5L and 5R slots of the equipment table), so while they ARE gilding objects, their association with 'objects that can be used for gilding a equipment' should be limited, or at least acknowledged. In addition, each of the 12 gemstones types has 36 variations, each with their own unique gilding information, which is why I initially declined the request to add gemstones to the gilding table. I instead opted to create 12 general gemstone pages (ie jade, diamond) instead of 100s of individual REAL gem pages (ie small rough ruby, large cut sapphire). the gilding information associated with the general gemstone pages is somewhat informal, summarized information that I gleaned from what users were submitting about the actual gems.

adding to this, gemstones can be used as either gilding objects for rings, or as curiosities. their function as a curio however is static across the board. X size gem gives Y amounts of LP. for the general gemstone pages, I opted to take an arbitrary number (18000, half of the highest potential) gem information and apply it to all gemstone pages.

This is just some general info about how gems work, maybe it'll help you determine what needs to be done, or what can be done.

--Ricky (talk) 01:38, 16 January 2019 (EST)

Nice useful reminder info on gemstones.

To potentially support gemstones variations a gemstone dedicated infobox seems most suitably.

Not sure yet about the best to be used data-structure. I will have to ponder about that a bit, while inspecting the currently available gemstones data.

--.MvGulik. 12:02, 16 January 2019 (EST)

Change implemented (separating Gemstones from "Gilding Objects" category that is).

--.MvGulik. 04:02, 16 January 2019 (EST)

Gemstones Gild data

What are the general, and data wise, relations of the data in the "Gilding Attribute", "Gilding Bonus 1,2,3,4" and "Base (q10) Attributes" parts.
For example at the Topaz page it has "Perception" and "Cooking" as "Gilding Attributes". But there is no sigh of "Cooking" in the other two data parts.

A note about the "Base (q10) Attributes" data.
Both the LP tables contain skew-symmetric complying data, and the "Base (q10) Attributes" data also shows a general strong skew-symmetric relationship in its data. Which makes none equal data in skew-symmetric cells kinda suspect of containing incomplete or potential misfit/outdated data.
Is there any info on why these none skew-symmetrical data-pairs might exist. On reason I can think of could be that a gilded ring will only show/pick a few buffs out of a larger set of potential buffs.

--.MvGulik. 21:12, 17 January 2019 (EST)

Gilding Attribute are the attributes used in calculating the % chance for a gild to successfully 'slot' an item. so in the case of topaz, having high cooking and perception have a higher chance of slotting the item.

gilding bonuses are the actual stat bonuses the item gives to the equipment. before the devs introduced gems, the highest number of gilding bonuses a single gilding item could give was 3. for insurance purposes against the crazy devs, i added gild4. i'm uncertain if there's any gem variants that have a fourth, fifth+ gilding bonus, but it's certainly possible

you're correct about the empty cells on various gem pages. they definitely have gilding bonuses, its just no user has supplied them yet. It would be easy to assume the gild data is symmetric, but knowing the devs there's a good chance its not. The gems have been out for awhile now, so there's a good chance some group of players has a more complete and accurate data set for the gilds. If they're willing to share it, however, is a different story.

--Ricky (talk) 02:39, 18 January 2019 (EST)

Well the problem with bonuses:

• There are just random secondary bonuses, grand heart and grand pear could have 1 main stat and different secondary.
• Due to my research the actual bonus not integer number, they are always like 0.8 and rounded, thats why there is a mess with quality. Would make a note about that.

I actually forgot about empty cells, was distracted with other tasks - i know few people who could find me missed data. The Gild1, Gild2 and so on in the new table i guess should be renamed in like - main stat, usual secondary, rare secondary and so on, with a note to see more detailed info on personal pages.

--Kitsuneg (talk) 03:39, 18 January 2019 (EST)

Ricky>"Gilding Attribute are the attributes used in calculating the % chance for a gild to successfully 'slot' an item."

Aha, got it.

Ricky>"before the devs introduced gems, ..."

Kitsuneg>"The Gild1, Gild2 and so on in the new table i guess should be renamed in like - main stat, usual secondary, ..."

So "Gild bonus 1,2,etc" are not really befitting the active gems-gilding system.

An additional option here, independent of renaming, is to use tooltips to add additional information.

• Info style tooltip: Info text.<br><br>This tooltip stays open until manually closed (or until an other SMW tooltip is triggered).<br><br>SMW tooltips page
• Note style tooltip: Info text.<br><br>This tooltip stays open while the mouse-cursor is hovering above the tooltip or its icon.<br><br>SMW tooltips page

(In case of the protected metaobj infobox template, one can always drop change suggestions/requests at its talk page or on a otherwise related Talk page)

>"It would be easy to assume the gild data is symmetric, ..."

I'm just saying it 'might be', not that it is. Needles to say that it needs additional confirmation/testing of some kind to be sure.

PS: Note that "knowing the devs" is highly subjective. The apparent high skew-symmetric nature of the data in the "Base (q10) Attributes" tables is a bit less subjective.

(ref img, green cells contain skew-symmetric data)

Kitsuneg>"There are just random secondary bonuses, ..."

Yea, figured that might be the case. ... That also means none primary bonus data will/can contain more than one property-input data/attribute.

Kitsuneg>"actual bonus not integer number, ..."

Spotted that. I took a quick look at trying to figure out some of the behind-the-scene values, but was not successfully in that yet.

>"empty cells"

All in good time.

--.MvGulik. 14:02, 18 January 2019 (EST)

Gemstone images.

For generating some of the missing gemstone images (and potential future updating of them). I could use some info on how the compound-gemstones parts, images and potential other data, are used/combined to create the final gemstone images. Test results on this side, so far, where not fit to be used. --.MvGulik. 16:15, 28 January 2023 (UTC)